4 ms·

1) Just to take an example, no desktop GUI, much less a pure web toolkit does image manipulation, drawing, filters and geometry at pixel-accuracy like Flash doe

by mahmud 16y ago

1) Just to take an example, no desktop GUI, much less a pure web toolkit does image manipulation, drawing, filters and geometry at pixel-accuracy like Flash does, at such small footprint, speed, and pleasant language. It's just 1 part of Flash. 2) Flash is ActionScript, and ActionScript is for all intents and purposes "EcmaScript-NG". JavaScript is becoming ActionScript. Adobe got all the predictions right, and EcmaScript is headed that way (I see type-annotations in your js-future :-) and because ActionScript ~= JavaScript, it would be very easy for them to convert to "HTML5", whatever that might become. This is such a trivial exercise, it's done several times a day, js ports of flax libraries. 3) We have already seen CSS3 "IDEs", and you have GWT, Aptana, etc. It's the "HTML5" scene that's going the old Flash way, by integrating development and tools, projectifying scripts, and becoming more organized.

treeface 16y ago
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but how is Javascript becoming ActionScript? To name a few major differences: the OO architectures are very different and Javascript doesn't compile.
- contextfree 16y ago
  Might be more accurate to say that Javascript was becoming ActionScript - ActionScript 3 was based on a draft standard for EcmaScript 4, which at the time of AS3's creation looked set to become JavaScript 2.0, but that didn't end up panning out.
  - mahmud 16y ago
    It's my understanding that Adobe has every intention of remaining a superset of EcmaScript. If ES breaks AS3 compatibility in the future, it's safe to expect that Adobe will keep pace. FWIW, for much of its documentation, Adobe refers to the EcmaScript specification. In fact, Flash instructions map 1:1 to EcmaScript specs, including the type conversion and promotion algorithms.
- mahmud 16y ago
  ActionScript is a superset of JavaScript with syntactic sugar. All the "differences", mostly type annotations, class-based oop, and traits, are superficial and do not modify the language to any reasonable degree. Every ECMAScript program is also a valid ActionScript 3 program. What do you mean "javascript doesn't compile"? if you mean it doesn't have a native ahead-of-time compiler for an existing physical processor, well, that's not a language problem but a community/effort problem :-)
  - treeface 16y ago
    I agree with you in general about the similarities between the two languages, but I haven't seen any movement from one to the other regarding the differences. I simply meant to address your comment regarding JS becoming AS. Re: compilation...sorry..that's exactly what I meant :-]. As far as I know, you can't open a prompt in a Flash app and code AS on the fly like you can in Javascript. I don't consider this a problem...I actually prefer JS to AS.
forgottenpaswrd 16y ago
"1) Just to take an example, no desktop GUI, much less a pure web toolkit does image manipulation, drawing, filters and geometry at pixel-accuracy like Flash does, at such small footprint, speed, and pleasant language. It's just 1 part of Flash." Exactly, people talk about "flash being slow", but the competence is even slower when they try to make what flash does well(drawing vector shapes videos). E.g when the OSS community tried to make animated svg or flash videos, they discovered their performance was simply awful compared to flash(the two guys that created it were not idiots after all). MS tried with silverlight not to do difficult things with vectors like flash does, and use hardware acceleration at the maximum level so nobody notice how poor their performance is. The same strategy of metro on win7 of "not trying to do what computers are not good for(translation: our employees don't know/don't want to do the hard work it takes to compete with flash, as computers improve we try to make the minimum effort, and use marketing to compete) "
- mahmud 16y ago
  the two guys that created it were not idiots after all Care to elaborate on this? Do you have a personal account on the origins of Flash? Would love to hear :-) I know Lynch was there from the start, but who are/were the coders?
gruseom 16y ago
Adobe got all the predictions right That's funny, I was arguing exactly the opposite recently: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1798679 As for JS becoming Actionscript, good god I hope not. And I bet not, too: V8 is far faster than AVM2 and doesn't have any of that stuff.
- mahmud 16y ago
  You and I are gonna have a private conversation about it. Can't have a Flash hater in my circle of friends, no Sir. (yeah, that "bigthingism" thing is one part Flash :-)

by mahmud 16y ago

treeface 16y ago

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but how is Javascript becoming ActionScript? To name a few major differences: the OO architectures are very different and Javascript doesn't compile.

contextfree 16y ago
Might be more accurate to say that Javascript was becoming ActionScript - ActionScript 3 was based on a draft standard for EcmaScript 4, which at the time of AS3's creation looked set to become JavaScript 2.0, but that didn't end up panning out.
- mahmud 16y ago
  It's my understanding that Adobe has every intention of remaining a superset of EcmaScript. If ES breaks AS3 compatibility in the future, it's safe to expect that Adobe will keep pace. FWIW, for much of its documentation, Adobe refers to the EcmaScript specification. In fact, Flash instructions map 1:1 to EcmaScript specs, including the type conversion and promotion algorithms.
mahmud 16y ago
ActionScript is a superset of JavaScript with syntactic sugar. All the "differences", mostly type annotations, class-based oop, and traits, are superficial and do not modify the language to any reasonable degree. Every ECMAScript program is also a valid ActionScript 3 program. What do you mean "javascript doesn't compile"? if you mean it doesn't have a native ahead-of-time compiler for an existing physical processor, well, that's not a language problem but a community/effort problem :-)
- treeface 16y ago
  I agree with you in general about the similarities between the two languages, but I haven't seen any movement from one to the other regarding the differences. I simply meant to address your comment regarding JS becoming AS. Re: compilation...sorry..that's exactly what I meant :-]. As far as I know, you can't open a prompt in a Flash app and code AS on the fly like you can in Javascript. I don't consider this a problem...I actually prefer JS to AS.

forgottenpaswrd 16y ago

"1) Just to take an example, no desktop GUI, much less a pure web toolkit does image manipulation, drawing, filters and geometry at pixel-accuracy like Flash does, at such small footprint, speed, and pleasant language. It's just 1 part of Flash." Exactly, people talk about "flash being slow", but the competence is even slower when they try to make what flash does well(drawing vector shapes videos). E.g when the OSS community tried to make animated svg or flash videos, they discovered their performance was simply awful compared to flash(the two guys that created it were not idiots after all). MS tried with silverlight not to do difficult things with vectors like flash does, and use hardware acceleration at the maximum level so nobody notice how poor their performance is. The same strategy of metro on win7 of "not trying to do what computers are not good for(translation: our employees don't know/don't want to do the hard work it takes to compete with flash, as computers improve we try to make the minimum effort, and use marketing to compete) "

mahmud 16y ago
the two guys that created it were not idiots after all Care to elaborate on this? Do you have a personal account on the origins of Flash? Would love to hear :-) I know Lynch was there from the start, but who are/were the coders?

gruseom 16y ago

Adobe got all the predictions right That's funny, I was arguing exactly the opposite recently: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1798679 As for JS becoming Actionscript, good god I hope not. And I bet not, too: V8 is far faster than AVM2 and doesn't have any of that stuff.

mahmud 16y ago
You and I are gonna have a private conversation about it. Can't have a Flash hater in my circle of friends, no Sir. (yeah, that "bigthingism" thing is one part Flash :-)