8 ms·

Google could buy $110M worth of land, without subsidies, for San Jose megacampus

79 points by jpatokal 8y ago

metildaa 8y ago
Is Google just desparate to expand in the Bay area? I guess its nearby to commuter rail, so there is some infrastructure, but unless San Jose starts doing many upzones, or Google includes over 10k units of housing, this will boost rent and property prices in the area.
- Techonomicon 8y ago
  They don't care, their employees can / will be able to afford the cost of living, and others will flock from the areas around to work low-paying jobs to support them. I'm leaving the area because I don't want to be forced to work for a FAANG to be able to have what should be middle-class lifestyle abilities without having to worry about how I'd be so much better off just working at one of them. I find it fairly appalling that no BigNameCos are at least trying to work at: a) remote work being a thing they offer b) expanding on meaningful satellite office space I don't want to really hear about how Amazon is trying to do this - they are simply exploiting alternate economies for their own gain instead of genuinely deciding to bolster them to give everyone involved an upside. I don't buy into the belief that this is the only place where people can build good software, that this is the only place to meet people to build great opportunities. The sooner we stop continually buying into this the sooner we can work on a change.
  - cmrdporcupine 8y ago
    In regards to your point 'b', Google at least does have some rather substantial offices outside of Mountain View, but other than NYC and Zurich (the big ones) they don't get a lot of publicity I guess. For example Pittsburgh & Waterloo are two great offices that are in smaller more affordable cities, and both offices are growing. I don't think you can say the same for Amazon, Facebook and Apple though. When my wife worked at Apple Canada a decade ago the trend was to strip engineering from remote offices and leave them as marketing/sales orgs only. I understand that changed some in the last bit, but I'm not sure how substantially. Amazon's offices here in the greater Toronto area are growing, but they're in Toronto, where cost of living is extremely high.
    - Techonomicon 8y ago
      Google does to some degree, however, from what I know (and Googlers feel free to jump in) it's non trivial to work for the Cloud team in sunnyvale or wherever but actually work from the Pittsburgh office. Because you can't do this sort of thing, the type of work that may be available to you at any given office not around headquarters may be limiting. I could be wrong on the above, but it's what I've minimally gathered from talking to some friends / recruiters over the years.
      - cmrdporcupine 8y ago
        Yeah, you're roughly correct. There are exceptions. But in general 'remote' sites (hate that term) have learned over time to avoid excessive fragmentation, as that has led to undesirable results. Sites tend to try to focus on a small number of teams with a strong centre of gravity.
    - Bahamut 8y ago
      I know Apple has some engineers that work in other offices - there’s a good component in Cork (Ireland) in Software Engineering, and other offices where engineers work out of. Similarly, I know of a fair number of engineers at Facebook working or who have worked out of their London office. The big tech companies definitely prefer to centralize engineering though, simply because video conferencing software is not there yet, and in-person communication is still far superior to the remote communication tools we have today. I say this as someone who works at one of the companies mentioned above.
  - justforaskin 8y ago
    This is the only place where they can effectively make an echo chamber. Try going to Indianapolis with their political views. A messiah complex won't go to far in the Circle City.
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  It has been agonizingly slow, but the BART extension is slowly closing in on downtown San Jose. That opens up a lot of the East Bay to commute in by rail.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    The BART accessible parts of the East Bay are not especially cheaper than the Peninsula. Prices already reflect the substantial tech job market in SF.
    - WillPostForFood 8y ago
      The cheaper BART accessible parts of the East bay substantially cheaper, though not cheap. Peninsula can be the triple or four times the price per square foot. https://m.estately.com/bay-area-home-affordability-transit-stop https://m.estately.com/bay-area-home-affordability-transit-s...
kochikame 8y ago
Downtown San Jose is a curious place. There are almost no stores and only a few big companies (like Adobe) clustered together. It seems like bars and restaurants are the only things really thriving there. If you compare the experience of walking around downtown San Francisco or any other larger US city during a weekday or on a weekend, San Jose seems very, very quiet and lacking that "bustle" that big cities have the world over. This Google development has the potential to give the downtown area some much needed balance and revitalization.
- Techonomicon 8y ago
  Downtown San Jose business / office space is owned by a few agencies who aren't interested in working with the local business to build a better downtown, but instead are interested in kicking them out as much as possible from their leases to renovate and bring in all the other random non-local-built conglomerates into downtown. I know this as I have a friend who owns a local business in downtown SJ who is being kicked off their lease, as well as every other club, restaurants, and businesses who's buildings were bought last year buy a single agency. Not everything needs some big company to come in to make everything better, all that actually does is bring in a whole new wave of business to benefit off of what was built by others who were crushed before them.
  - jpatokal 8y ago
    I emphasize with the general sentiment, but this doesn't appear to be applicable to this particular deal, which seems to involve parking lots and disused government buildings.
  - drdeadringer 8y ago
    There's a spot right across the street from Original Joe's. I'm not sure exactly how much of the building has been sitting empty for the past 10+ years, but the only time I've seen the corner retail space occupied was for a [temporary] pop-up store for SuperBowl 50's memorabilia while that was going on. This makes sense for somebody, and at the moment that's not me.
zaroth 8y ago
So, about 3 acres then?
- ec109685 8y ago
  From the article: "In a new document, the city of San Jose says that Google could pay upwards of $100 million to buy roughly 21 acres of land for its proposed mega-campus, without any subsidies."
  - zaroth 8y ago
    Lame attempt at “TRBA” sarcasm, my apologies.
jpatokal 8y ago
Details of the specific lots in question can be found in the linked Memorandum, with a map on page 7: http://sanjose.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=6e29db0e-c5d7-4952-b0cc-f3a04a97caf9.pdf http://sanjose.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=6e29db0e-c5d... The biggest lots appear to be currently used only for parking for the adjacent SAP Center sports arena: https://goo.gl/maps/5rGgitUeisL2 https://goo.gl/maps/5rGgitUeisL2
- masonic 8y ago
  The biggest lots appear to be currently used only for parking for the adjacent SAP Center No, only the one parcel directly south of SAP, corner of Autumn and Santa Clara, is designated SAP parking (known as Lot D).
cheriot 8y ago
It's crazy to me that big Tech Cos keep building massive offices and don't mind that there's not enough housing built to match. Those rent/housing prices drive up the wages they have to pay.
- tropo 8y ago
  Perhaps this is the goal. Locating the offices in areas with high housing costs is an effective way to discriminate against people with families. Such people might not want to dedicate life fully to the company. Getting people to live in apartments means that there is no gardening or home repair to do, so one might as well head in to the office and do some more work.
  - gammateam 8y ago
    lol discriminate.... its also a great way to boost your balance sheet! Nobody is thinking about anything else. When the notional on paper value of your real estate holdings are higher, your access to low interest credit is greater, your access to deductions is greater, your access to anonymous wealth preservation is greater: a more fungible dollar is worth more than others because the covenants are more numerous At this point it is a self fulfilling prophecy
- kochikame 8y ago
  Your comment made me think of the Bournville model village that Cadbury's built for their workers in Victorian times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville
- usaar333 8y ago
  > and don't mind that there's not enough housing built to match. Of course they mind. Google even works with developers to build housing: https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/12/googles-massive-housing-and-office-plan-poised-for-approval/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/12/googles-massive-housi... Also FWIW, housing prices (rents) have generally stagnated for the past 3 years in the Bay Area; it's less of a problem now (in terms of getting worse) than it was half a decade ago.
csense 8y ago
I've recently been doing a fair amount of traveling to tech-heavy cities from my base in the Rust Belt. I see all the money and development going on in places like this, and it amazes me how growing and non-dysfunctional these economies are. How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? Clearly money alone isn't a motivator, I just did a quick check and 3 times that amount of highway adjacent, commercial zoned acreage is available in my zip code for 1% of this price.
- gammateam 8y ago
  I get your question is how, the answer is that its not gonna happen Bezos’ fake contest accurately reflects the coastal mentality. There is a culture that supports this industry which has history that wont be replicated by a random town that wants to call itself Silicon Apalachia/whatever geographic feature is nearby
- usaar333 8y ago
  > How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? You'd need to incentivize a critical mass of high-paid workers to be willing to move there. As you note, money won't do it -- you'd need to offer some sort of unique opportunity. Finding such a thing is a very hard problem..
  - SomewhatLikely 8y ago
    You really do need a critical mass. I moved for my last job search and one option was for LinkedIn in Omaha. Compared to a tech hub, such a job is risky. I'm starting a family and would prefer they don't have to move more than necessary. Jobs don't always work out and living in a city with lots of tech jobs means I don't have to ever move again because of work if I don't want to. Then there's the added bonuses when a certain percentage of your community work in tech. Then the goals of your community align better with your goals for your kids, for entertainment, recreation, shopping, the environment, etc.
- AuthorizedCust 8y ago
otabdeveloper2 8y ago
> $110m Probably less than the cost of one diversity training seminar for Google.
- masonic 8y ago
  It's also half price compared to what the city itself just paid for the Convention center South Hall parcel.
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  I flagged this because I think it’s a joke, but let me know if you’re serious and I’ll unflag.
oculusthrift 8y ago
really wish they would expand somewhere else instead (i know they are doing NY).
masonic 8y ago
To say "without subsidies" is seriously misleading. Google is being offered these lots at well below market price. Many of the same lots were previously offered to the Oakland A's for a new ballpark, also well below market price at that time. San Jose land policy is run by corrupt idiots, as evidenced by them paying $41 million(0) in a sealed bid auction for the Convention center South Hall property at about twice the price they are getting from Google ($10M/acre for that mostly landlocked parcel vs. $5M/acre they are charging Google for prime parcels with good freeway access at Bird Ave.). But, hey, I'm sure they'll all get cushy Google executive positions when they leave "public service"... like Mineta did from Lockheed Martin after redirecting light rail their way. Also, regarding "no subsidies": watch them offer Google below-srandard development impact fees. (0) the highest private sector bid? Just $11 million!

79 points by jpatokal 8y ago

Is Google just desparate to expand in the Bay area? I guess its nearby to commuter rail, so there is some infrastructure, but unless San Jose starts doing many upzones, or Google includes over 10k units of housing, this will boost rent and property prices in the area.

Techonomicon 8y ago
They don't care, their employees can / will be able to afford the cost of living, and others will flock from the areas around to work low-paying jobs to support them. I'm leaving the area because I don't want to be forced to work for a FAANG to be able to have what should be middle-class lifestyle abilities without having to worry about how I'd be so much better off just working at one of them. I find it fairly appalling that no BigNameCos are at least trying to work at: a) remote work being a thing they offer b) expanding on meaningful satellite office space I don't want to really hear about how Amazon is trying to do this - they are simply exploiting alternate economies for their own gain instead of genuinely deciding to bolster them to give everyone involved an upside. I don't buy into the belief that this is the only place where people can build good software, that this is the only place to meet people to build great opportunities. The sooner we stop continually buying into this the sooner we can work on a change.
- cmrdporcupine 8y ago
  In regards to your point 'b', Google at least does have some rather substantial offices outside of Mountain View, but other than NYC and Zurich (the big ones) they don't get a lot of publicity I guess. For example Pittsburgh & Waterloo are two great offices that are in smaller more affordable cities, and both offices are growing. I don't think you can say the same for Amazon, Facebook and Apple though. When my wife worked at Apple Canada a decade ago the trend was to strip engineering from remote offices and leave them as marketing/sales orgs only. I understand that changed some in the last bit, but I'm not sure how substantially. Amazon's offices here in the greater Toronto area are growing, but they're in Toronto, where cost of living is extremely high.
  - Techonomicon 8y ago
    Google does to some degree, however, from what I know (and Googlers feel free to jump in) it's non trivial to work for the Cloud team in sunnyvale or wherever but actually work from the Pittsburgh office. Because you can't do this sort of thing, the type of work that may be available to you at any given office not around headquarters may be limiting. I could be wrong on the above, but it's what I've minimally gathered from talking to some friends / recruiters over the years.
    - cmrdporcupine 8y ago
      Yeah, you're roughly correct. There are exceptions. But in general 'remote' sites (hate that term) have learned over time to avoid excessive fragmentation, as that has led to undesirable results. Sites tend to try to focus on a small number of teams with a strong centre of gravity.
  - Bahamut 8y ago
    I know Apple has some engineers that work in other offices - there’s a good component in Cork (Ireland) in Software Engineering, and other offices where engineers work out of. Similarly, I know of a fair number of engineers at Facebook working or who have worked out of their London office. The big tech companies definitely prefer to centralize engineering though, simply because video conferencing software is not there yet, and in-person communication is still far superior to the remote communication tools we have today. I say this as someone who works at one of the companies mentioned above.
- justforaskin 8y ago
  This is the only place where they can effectively make an echo chamber. Try going to Indianapolis with their political views. A messiah complex won't go to far in the Circle City.
WillPostForFood 8y ago
It has been agonizingly slow, but the BART extension is slowly closing in on downtown San Jose. That opens up a lot of the East Bay to commute in by rail.
- closeparen 8y ago
  The BART accessible parts of the East Bay are not especially cheaper than the Peninsula. Prices already reflect the substantial tech job market in SF.
  - WillPostForFood 8y ago
    The cheaper BART accessible parts of the East bay substantially cheaper, though not cheap. Peninsula can be the triple or four times the price per square foot. https://m.estately.com/bay-area-home-affordability-transit-stop https://m.estately.com/bay-area-home-affordability-transit-s...

kochikame 8y ago

Downtown San Jose is a curious place. There are almost no stores and only a few big companies (like Adobe) clustered together. It seems like bars and restaurants are the only things really thriving there. If you compare the experience of walking around downtown San Francisco or any other larger US city during a weekday or on a weekend, San Jose seems very, very quiet and lacking that "bustle" that big cities have the world over. This Google development has the potential to give the downtown area some much needed balance and revitalization.

Techonomicon 8y ago
Downtown San Jose business / office space is owned by a few agencies who aren't interested in working with the local business to build a better downtown, but instead are interested in kicking them out as much as possible from their leases to renovate and bring in all the other random non-local-built conglomerates into downtown. I know this as I have a friend who owns a local business in downtown SJ who is being kicked off their lease, as well as every other club, restaurants, and businesses who's buildings were bought last year buy a single agency. Not everything needs some big company to come in to make everything better, all that actually does is bring in a whole new wave of business to benefit off of what was built by others who were crushed before them.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  I emphasize with the general sentiment, but this doesn't appear to be applicable to this particular deal, which seems to involve parking lots and disused government buildings.
- drdeadringer 8y ago
  There's a spot right across the street from Original Joe's. I'm not sure exactly how much of the building has been sitting empty for the past 10+ years, but the only time I've seen the corner retail space occupied was for a [temporary] pop-up store for SuperBowl 50's memorabilia while that was going on. This makes sense for somebody, and at the moment that's not me.

zaroth 8y ago

So, about 3 acres then?

ec109685 8y ago
From the article: "In a new document, the city of San Jose says that Google could pay upwards of $100 million to buy roughly 21 acres of land for its proposed mega-campus, without any subsidies."
- zaroth 8y ago
  Lame attempt at “TRBA” sarcasm, my apologies.

jpatokal 8y ago

Details of the specific lots in question can be found in the linked Memorandum, with a map on page 7: http://sanjose.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=6e29db0e-c5d7-4952-b0cc-f3a04a97caf9.pdf http://sanjose.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=6e29db0e-c5d... The biggest lots appear to be currently used only for parking for the adjacent SAP Center sports arena: https://goo.gl/maps/5rGgitUeisL2 https://goo.gl/maps/5rGgitUeisL2

masonic 8y ago
The biggest lots appear to be currently used only for parking for the adjacent SAP Center No, only the one parcel directly south of SAP, corner of Autumn and Santa Clara, is designated SAP parking (known as Lot D).

cheriot 8y ago

It's crazy to me that big Tech Cos keep building massive offices and don't mind that there's not enough housing built to match. Those rent/housing prices drive up the wages they have to pay.

tropo 8y ago
Perhaps this is the goal. Locating the offices in areas with high housing costs is an effective way to discriminate against people with families. Such people might not want to dedicate life fully to the company. Getting people to live in apartments means that there is no gardening or home repair to do, so one might as well head in to the office and do some more work.
- gammateam 8y ago
  lol discriminate.... its also a great way to boost your balance sheet! Nobody is thinking about anything else. When the notional on paper value of your real estate holdings are higher, your access to low interest credit is greater, your access to deductions is greater, your access to anonymous wealth preservation is greater: a more fungible dollar is worth more than others because the covenants are more numerous At this point it is a self fulfilling prophecy
kochikame 8y ago
Your comment made me think of the Bournville model village that Cadbury's built for their workers in Victorian times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville
usaar333 8y ago
> and don't mind that there's not enough housing built to match. Of course they mind. Google even works with developers to build housing: https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/12/googles-massive-housing-and-office-plan-poised-for-approval/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/12/googles-massive-housi... Also FWIW, housing prices (rents) have generally stagnated for the past 3 years in the Bay Area; it's less of a problem now (in terms of getting worse) than it was half a decade ago.

csense 8y ago

I've recently been doing a fair amount of traveling to tech-heavy cities from my base in the Rust Belt. I see all the money and development going on in places like this, and it amazes me how growing and non-dysfunctional these economies are. How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? Clearly money alone isn't a motivator, I just did a quick check and 3 times that amount of highway adjacent, commercial zoned acreage is available in my zip code for 1% of this price.

gammateam 8y ago
I get your question is how, the answer is that its not gonna happen Bezos’ fake contest accurately reflects the coastal mentality. There is a culture that supports this industry which has history that wont be replicated by a random town that wants to call itself Silicon Apalachia/whatever geographic feature is nearby
usaar333 8y ago
> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? You'd need to incentivize a critical mass of high-paid workers to be willing to move there. As you note, money won't do it -- you'd need to offer some sort of unique opportunity. Finding such a thing is a very hard problem..
- SomewhatLikely 8y ago
  You really do need a critical mass. I moved for my last job search and one option was for LinkedIn in Omaha. Compared to a tech hub, such a job is risky. I'm starting a family and would prefer they don't have to move more than necessary. Jobs don't always work out and living in a city with lots of tech jobs means I don't have to ever move again because of work if I don't want to. Then there's the added bonuses when a certain percentage of your community work in tech. Then the goals of your community align better with your goals for your kids, for entertainment, recreation, shopping, the environment, etc.
AuthorizedCust 8y ago

otabdeveloper2 8y ago

> $110m Probably less than the cost of one diversity training seminar for Google.

masonic 8y ago
It's also half price compared to what the city itself just paid for the Convention center South Hall parcel.
erikpukinskis 8y ago
I flagged this because I think it’s a joke, but let me know if you’re serious and I’ll unflag.

oculusthrift 8y ago

really wish they would expand somewhere else instead (i know they are doing NY).

masonic 8y ago

To say "without subsidies" is seriously misleading. Google is being offered these lots at well below market price. Many of the same lots were previously offered to the Oakland A's for a new ballpark, also well below market price at that time. San Jose land policy is run by corrupt idiots, as evidenced by them paying $41 million(0) in a sealed bid auction for the Convention center South Hall property at about twice the price they are getting from Google ($10M/acre for that mostly landlocked parcel vs. $5M/acre they are charging Google for prime parcels with good freeway access at Bird Ave.). But, hey, I'm sure they'll all get cushy Google executive positions when they leave "public service"... like Mineta did from Lockheed Martin after redirecting light rail their way. Also, regarding "no subsidies": watch them offer Google below-srandard development impact fees. (0) the highest private sector bid? Just $11 million!