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A French Novelist Imagined Sexual Dystopia. Now It’s Arrived

35 points by Melchizedek 8y ago

hnuser355 8y ago
I feel like people are so extra about sex. I had more sex than I probably need to in my lifetime when I was younger and I’m not sure there was a point. Sex->restaurant->sex->work just makes you fat and unhappy. Now my life is not that stable and I work all the time so I don’t want to find a partner if I don’t think I’ll be a good one. Also not interested in dating or having sex with randoms or friends. So I guess there we have it. I wish incel guys would just focus on having a fulfilling life and learning to socialize normally and then they’d probably get a girlfriend anyway.
- rc_hadoken 8y ago
  Just curious...are you female or would you consider yourself extroverted?
  - hnuser355 8y ago
    No & yes. But I feel like a lot of guys confuse extroversion with being “alpha” or successful or whatever when in reality you can just be socially normal and not have such weird hangups.
    - rc_hadoken 8y ago
      I see well I learned by reading and a lot of trial and error not innate socialization. Extroversion means you get what's going on with social games and you care enough to play them. Also, you are energized by socializing with others. I get the games...mostly but most of the time I avoid playing them (stay quiet) or I simply am not present to be a participant. So when you say "hang up" us non-extroverts think (and im trying not to speak for everyone here) "Sure, but I bet you can't be alone by default." Typing this in a slight rush so not sure if my point comes across.
xrd 8y ago
Sex is overrated.
tuesdayrain 8y ago
I was an incel for a long time. I wasn't mad at anyone for not being attracted to me, just upset with myself for having some genetic conditions that are not yet curable. I think a lot of people in my position would be almost completely satisfied with legalized prostitution. Some romantic female contact, even if it's done purely as a financial transaction, can really change people's lives for the better.
- OpenBSD-reich 8y ago
  YES! So much this! As a current incel I don't hate women for not being attracted to me either. So many of us are harmless, cuddly, and completely frustrated by the isolation and insurmountable failures. Much of the bants found on places like /r/incels is a combination of letting off high pressure steam and chemo to ensure the incel safe-space is free of women and "normies." Anyone (especially women readers) want to get a taste of the incel experience? Hit Google Image Search and look for galleries of three types of men: typically unattractive and/or fat geeky/nerdy men, typical average Joe with a minimal beer gut at worst, and a 9-10/10 chiseled jaw cut body gym rat. Make profiles for each (with some effort), share the same text across all three. Do this on all popular dating sites and apps. Count how many messages/swipes it takes to a phone number. With nerd you'll likely spend months getting zero. With Joe you'll spend weeks to get one or two. With chiseled Chad they'll pour in within hours. With Joe and Nerd you can dump great effort into your content and get almost no increase in stats. With chiseled Chad you can say you were a recently released child rapist, a white nationalist who thinks it's time to gas all jews, simply open with "wanna fukc?" as your first message, and still do very very well. Chiseled Chad can do no wrong. Frankly, the "men are so shallow" meme needs to die. Dating sites need to go against better money and statistically boost the low match/message users over the sexy users. It won't happen though, and short of making only men eligible for welfare or instituting a single woman tax (economically rendering women dependent on relationships with men), women will continue to be highly selective and prefer singlehood over relationships with "less attractive" men. Prostitution would be a boon to us IMO, and would be a far more palatable solution than economic pressure. If only men could have an outlet to not be so "thirsty"...
squozzer 8y ago
I think some of what hampers young guys love lives is the assumption that only "perfect" - in situations as well as looks - girls are worth dating. Generally, "peer" women - that is, women of the same age and social standing - are "sleeping up." Because they can. That said, plenty of niches exist for the enterprising - 1) Single moms 2) Older women 3) Girls you knew in HS / college
mcv 8y ago
The problem with incels is not the lack of sex, it's the belief that they need to have sex, and that women owe them sex. It's a problem of entitlement, not of sexual revolution. Well, maybe a bit of sexual revolution: in particular, of the idea that you're a loser if you're not having sex. That is a stupid notion that society needs to get rid of. There are tons of people who aren't having sex. I didn't have any sex until I was over 30, and I'm pretty sure some of my friends are even later. If you're really desperate to just have sex, find someone else who also just wants sex to have sex with. Visit a prostitute if you must (but check if she's legal and voluntary, and not forced into it; there's sadly a lot of human trafficking, slavery and other crime in prostitution, depending on where you live). And if what you really want is a fulfilling relationship, then become a better person who is a safe and interesting person to have a relationship with. There are plenty of people of the opposite (or same, depending on your preference) who are also looking for a relationship, but they're not going to date an entitled creep who doesn't respect them. You really don't have to look like Brad Pitt, just being a decent person is enough. Respect people and they will respect you. But see women as sex vending machines and you're not going to get any.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  To add to that, you see a lot of guys raging that women are too shallow to look past their physical appearance, when they themselves would never even consider a woman who's not conventionally attractive. If you're a 4 out of 10, you'll be much happier once you realize that you can have a perfectly wonderful time with a woman who is also a 4 out of 10. It's fun being with someone who makes your friends jealous, but there are so many more important factors in a happy relationship. And it doesn't matter in the dark anyway.
- HappySweeney 8y ago
  From what I understand, inability get laid is not the issue. The problem is that these guys believe/know they are top quality in everything except appearance. Therefore they deserve top quality women, which to them means physically attractive. As these women are not falling over themselves to get with the incel, there must be something wrong with society. So, they rage at society for brainwashing their women to fuck the Chads (their word for men that successfully date the attractive women - which they call Stacy). To me, the whole thing just looks like narcissism.
lourenchord 8y ago
So basically inequality in any facet of life leads to dystopia (really winners and losers at extremes), but I also think trying to force equality in every facet of life will also lead to dystopia. So what do we do when people have real grievances ? Is there any way for technology to solve it ? Lately I don't see technology has solving our human problems, but exacerbating them to incredibly dangerous levels. We need to become post-humans.
Something1234 8y ago
We should all take a look at Shimoneta. It's a great concept of a world where speech is restricted and knowledge dies out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

35 points by Melchizedek 8y ago

I feel like people are so extra about sex. I had more sex than I probably need to in my lifetime when I was younger and I’m not sure there was a point. Sex->restaurant->sex->work just makes you fat and unhappy. Now my life is not that stable and I work all the time so I don’t want to find a partner if I don’t think I’ll be a good one. Also not interested in dating or having sex with randoms or friends. So I guess there we have it. I wish incel guys would just focus on having a fulfilling life and learning to socialize normally and then they’d probably get a girlfriend anyway.

rc_hadoken 8y ago
Just curious...are you female or would you consider yourself extroverted?
- hnuser355 8y ago
  No & yes. But I feel like a lot of guys confuse extroversion with being “alpha” or successful or whatever when in reality you can just be socially normal and not have such weird hangups.
  - rc_hadoken 8y ago
    I see well I learned by reading and a lot of trial and error not innate socialization. Extroversion means you get what's going on with social games and you care enough to play them. Also, you are energized by socializing with others. I get the games...mostly but most of the time I avoid playing them (stay quiet) or I simply am not present to be a participant. So when you say "hang up" us non-extroverts think (and im trying not to speak for everyone here) "Sure, but I bet you can't be alone by default." Typing this in a slight rush so not sure if my point comes across.

xrd 8y ago

Sex is overrated.

tuesdayrain 8y ago

I was an incel for a long time. I wasn't mad at anyone for not being attracted to me, just upset with myself for having some genetic conditions that are not yet curable. I think a lot of people in my position would be almost completely satisfied with legalized prostitution. Some romantic female contact, even if it's done purely as a financial transaction, can really change people's lives for the better.

OpenBSD-reich 8y ago
YES! So much this! As a current incel I don't hate women for not being attracted to me either. So many of us are harmless, cuddly, and completely frustrated by the isolation and insurmountable failures. Much of the bants found on places like /r/incels is a combination of letting off high pressure steam and chemo to ensure the incel safe-space is free of women and "normies." Anyone (especially women readers) want to get a taste of the incel experience? Hit Google Image Search and look for galleries of three types of men: typically unattractive and/or fat geeky/nerdy men, typical average Joe with a minimal beer gut at worst, and a 9-10/10 chiseled jaw cut body gym rat. Make profiles for each (with some effort), share the same text across all three. Do this on all popular dating sites and apps. Count how many messages/swipes it takes to a phone number. With nerd you'll likely spend months getting zero. With Joe you'll spend weeks to get one or two. With chiseled Chad they'll pour in within hours. With Joe and Nerd you can dump great effort into your content and get almost no increase in stats. With chiseled Chad you can say you were a recently released child rapist, a white nationalist who thinks it's time to gas all jews, simply open with "wanna fukc?" as your first message, and still do very very well. Chiseled Chad can do no wrong. Frankly, the "men are so shallow" meme needs to die. Dating sites need to go against better money and statistically boost the low match/message users over the sexy users. It won't happen though, and short of making only men eligible for welfare or instituting a single woman tax (economically rendering women dependent on relationships with men), women will continue to be highly selective and prefer singlehood over relationships with "less attractive" men. Prostitution would be a boon to us IMO, and would be a far more palatable solution than economic pressure. If only men could have an outlet to not be so "thirsty"...

squozzer 8y ago

I think some of what hampers young guys love lives is the assumption that only "perfect" - in situations as well as looks - girls are worth dating. Generally, "peer" women - that is, women of the same age and social standing - are "sleeping up." Because they can. That said, plenty of niches exist for the enterprising - 1) Single moms 2) Older women 3) Girls you knew in HS / college

mcv 8y ago

The problem with incels is not the lack of sex, it's the belief that they need to have sex, and that women owe them sex. It's a problem of entitlement, not of sexual revolution. Well, maybe a bit of sexual revolution: in particular, of the idea that you're a loser if you're not having sex. That is a stupid notion that society needs to get rid of. There are tons of people who aren't having sex. I didn't have any sex until I was over 30, and I'm pretty sure some of my friends are even later. If you're really desperate to just have sex, find someone else who also just wants sex to have sex with. Visit a prostitute if you must (but check if she's legal and voluntary, and not forced into it; there's sadly a lot of human trafficking, slavery and other crime in prostitution, depending on where you live). And if what you really want is a fulfilling relationship, then become a better person who is a safe and interesting person to have a relationship with. There are plenty of people of the opposite (or same, depending on your preference) who are also looking for a relationship, but they're not going to date an entitled creep who doesn't respect them. You really don't have to look like Brad Pitt, just being a decent person is enough. Respect people and they will respect you. But see women as sex vending machines and you're not going to get any.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
To add to that, you see a lot of guys raging that women are too shallow to look past their physical appearance, when they themselves would never even consider a woman who's not conventionally attractive. If you're a 4 out of 10, you'll be much happier once you realize that you can have a perfectly wonderful time with a woman who is also a 4 out of 10. It's fun being with someone who makes your friends jealous, but there are so many more important factors in a happy relationship. And it doesn't matter in the dark anyway.
HappySweeney 8y ago
From what I understand, inability get laid is not the issue. The problem is that these guys believe/know they are top quality in everything except appearance. Therefore they deserve top quality women, which to them means physically attractive. As these women are not falling over themselves to get with the incel, there must be something wrong with society. So, they rage at society for brainwashing their women to fuck the Chads (their word for men that successfully date the attractive women - which they call Stacy). To me, the whole thing just looks like narcissism.

lourenchord 8y ago

So basically inequality in any facet of life leads to dystopia (really winners and losers at extremes), but I also think trying to force equality in every facet of life will also lead to dystopia. So what do we do when people have real grievances ? Is there any way for technology to solve it ? Lately I don't see technology has solving our human problems, but exacerbating them to incredibly dangerous levels. We need to become post-humans.

Something1234 8y ago

We should all take a look at Shimoneta. It's a great concept of a world where speech is restricted and knowledge dies out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]