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I mean Apple has their own flash controllers, so they’re really the only company that owns the FS and the flash controller. So really they can depend on it.

skrause 8y ago
What about external hard disks with terrible USB controllers? That's where data checksumming would be even more important and where Apple doesn't produce the hardware.
- tobias3 8y ago
  Maybe APFS was mainly developed for iOS?
- derefr 8y ago
  Apple doesn’t recommend using APFS for external media.
  - pvg 8y ago
    Really? Can you remember where you've seen this non-recommendation?
    - unicornporn 8y ago
      Apple isn't really embracing APFS for external drives as I see it. Time Machine backups would be one of the main uses for external drives, but… > Time Machine can’t back up to an APFS-formatted disk. If you select a back up disk formatted as APFS, Time Machine offers to reformat it as HFS+.[1] [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/types-of-disks-you-can-use-with-time-machine-mh15139/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/types-of-disks-you-...
      - pvg 8y ago
        This has more to do with the implementation details of TimeMachine which relies on features of HFS+ not available in APFS. It's not Apple telling you not to use APFS on external drives.
    - 4ad 8y ago
      I can't recall if I ever saw it, but by default it will use HFS+ for external drives.
- jxi 8y ago
  Every time I unplug an external USB prematurely, the next time I plug it into my mac, it does a full filesystem check of it which takes a few mins.
leonroy 8y ago
There have been at least two occasions in the past three years that I remember where Apple had to recall or issue firmware updates for SSDs due to corruption issues. It’s a big IF to depend solely on flash based error checking. I think Apple likely figured the cost of implementation and system overhead wasn’t worth it for Macs and iOS devices. I’d be very surprised if they use APFS or a non checksumning file system on their iCloud server farm though.

skrause 8y ago

What about external hard disks with terrible USB controllers? That's where data checksumming would be even more important and where Apple doesn't produce the hardware.

tobias3 8y ago
Maybe APFS was mainly developed for iOS?
derefr 8y ago
Apple doesn’t recommend using APFS for external media.
- pvg 8y ago
  Really? Can you remember where you've seen this non-recommendation?
  - unicornporn 8y ago
    Apple isn't really embracing APFS for external drives as I see it. Time Machine backups would be one of the main uses for external drives, but… > Time Machine can’t back up to an APFS-formatted disk. If you select a back up disk formatted as APFS, Time Machine offers to reformat it as HFS+.[1] [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/types-of-disks-you-can-use-with-time-machine-mh15139/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/types-of-disks-you-...
    - pvg 8y ago
      This has more to do with the implementation details of TimeMachine which relies on features of HFS+ not available in APFS. It's not Apple telling you not to use APFS on external drives.
  - 4ad 8y ago
    I can't recall if I ever saw it, but by default it will use HFS+ for external drives.
jxi 8y ago
Every time I unplug an external USB prematurely, the next time I plug it into my mac, it does a full filesystem check of it which takes a few mins.

leonroy 8y ago

There have been at least two occasions in the past three years that I remember where Apple had to recall or issue firmware updates for SSDs due to corruption issues. It’s a big IF to depend solely on flash based error checking. I think Apple likely figured the cost of implementation and system overhead wasn’t worth it for Macs and iOS devices. I’d be very surprised if they use APFS or a non checksumning file system on their iCloud server farm though.