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you make it sound like those numbers are completely comprehensive and without agenda, and that these subsidies are an unmitigated good. but they completely igno

you make it sound like those numbers are completely comprehensive and without agenda, and that these subsidies are an unmitigated good. but they completely ignore jobs lost, companies shuttered, environmental impacts, and opportunity costs. you're looking only at inflows and ignoring outflows. no systems dynamicist would take such an analysis seriously. systems have boundaries (by definition), and you must look at all traversals across the boundaries, not just the ones you like. plus, you ignore the fact that amazon probably would have set up shop in nyc for far fewer, and probably even zero, dollars in subsidies. i.e., the same benefits without redirecting tax dollars to the already rich. yes to more, savvy economic development; no to corporate giveaways. EDIT: to your point about actors acting rationally, i would hope a group of business owners who don't get such subsidies put a bill before the people to either hold amazon accountable to promised performance or rescind/restrict the subsidies (or failing that, vote the bums out). the economic development program dollars they used should be directed toward entrepreneurs and small businesses, not mega-corps.

matchagaucho 8y ago
"you ignore the fact that amazon probably would have set up shop in nyc for far fewer, and probably even zero, dollars in subsidies" Not a chance. Property tax incentives and subsidies are offered in all 50 U.S. states to encourage employer relocation. There is rampant competition.
- clairity 8y ago
  but there is only one new york city.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    As arrogant as this comment may sound, when you're talking about a facility like Amazon's HQ2, HN user "clarity" is right. There really is only one place that combines a ridiculous amount of technology expertise, with an east coast location, and multi-modal transport links to both the US and the Europe-Africa side of the world. But that's all the more reason that NY state did not need to offer that much in subsidies. (Again, I know they got a good deal, but not giving Amazon anything would have been an even better deal.)
Spooky23 8y ago
Economic development numbers in NY are loaded with many of the things that you talk about. As the flow of jobs to the south from the north has demonstrated, incentives work and offset the increased costs of doing business in a place like New York. Those costs are often criticized but include things like worker protection, environmental protection and other things that companies generally flee.
RandomInteger4 8y ago
What jobs are being lost and companies being shuttered in New York? What environmental impact is being had in New York? This isn't a walmart that's going to displace local shops. This is a corporate headquarters; an office building. Last I checked, they don't have to build a stagnant pond next to the building either, so I don't know what you mean by environmental impact. Amazon is going to exist whether or not it has an HQ in NY, so your points seem tangential and irrelevant.

matchagaucho 8y ago

"you ignore the fact that amazon probably would have set up shop in nyc for far fewer, and probably even zero, dollars in subsidies" Not a chance. Property tax incentives and subsidies are offered in all 50 U.S. states to encourage employer relocation. There is rampant competition.

clairity 8y ago
but there is only one new york city.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  As arrogant as this comment may sound, when you're talking about a facility like Amazon's HQ2, HN user "clarity" is right. There really is only one place that combines a ridiculous amount of technology expertise, with an east coast location, and multi-modal transport links to both the US and the Europe-Africa side of the world. But that's all the more reason that NY state did not need to offer that much in subsidies. (Again, I know they got a good deal, but not giving Amazon anything would have been an even better deal.)

Spooky23 8y ago

Economic development numbers in NY are loaded with many of the things that you talk about. As the flow of jobs to the south from the north has demonstrated, incentives work and offset the increased costs of doing business in a place like New York. Those costs are often criticized but include things like worker protection, environmental protection and other things that companies generally flee.

RandomInteger4 8y ago

What jobs are being lost and companies being shuttered in New York? What environmental impact is being had in New York? This isn't a walmart that's going to displace local shops. This is a corporate headquarters; an office building. Last I checked, they don't have to build a stagnant pond next to the building either, so I don't know what you mean by environmental impact. Amazon is going to exist whether or not it has an HQ in NY, so your points seem tangential and irrelevant.