7 ms·

This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's

This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's not only the misinformation that is the problem, facebook itself is at the heart of the problem. They are one of many, albeit facebook being on the more influential side, platforms through which misinformation is spread. And of course education is the main handle to push to stop spreading of misinformation. But facebook earned I don't know how much money on this and they tried to minimise the problem out of monetary concerns. We thought the Internet would bring prosperity and an explosion of knowledge growth. And it surely did. But it also connected millions of less educated people who never knew that there were so many others out there - because they never read what they believed in the newspapers. And now they know that many others share their views. Again, education is at the core of a solution to this misinformation crisis. So maybe call the structural problems the burning embers and facebook the accelerant.

platz 8y ago
Yes, it is blame-shifting. Facebook's board knows exactly what it is doing. Are they going to take a hit from their shareholders given the choice? No. > We thought the Internet would bring prosperity and an explosion of knowledge growth Yes, but the movement also came with a mandate, that information and services should be free. That severly restricts the business models available. I dont think consumers can solve the problem easily. They are caught in behavior-modifying algorithms. The problem is a new business model needs to be created.
basurihn 8y ago
It certainly did connect less educated. This is a only part of the picture - the misinformation crisis also involves the miseducated. The quality of our collegiate has been much displaced by the rise of the true-believing college administrator with authority to suppress unorthodox curriculum and research. Facebook ALSO gives this cancer a platform.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  Facebook does not give the cancer a platform. Facebook is the cancer.
  - justapassenger 8y ago
    So if Facebook is gone we’ll all reconnect in a kumbaya?
chrisseaton 8y ago
Is ‘less educated’ code for people with views different to yours?
- mrleiter 8y ago
  No, there are some less educated people who share the same views as me. But it is no secret that the degree of education correlates strongly with certain political views. And the people currently in power in America certainly know that and play that to their advantage. They know full well that their proposed solutions won't work a bit, but instead make them richer along the way. But the less educated people don't know that, they are being abused and mislead. I am not against conservative people and also not against people with different views. We live in a plural society and that is a good thing. It becomes a problem when some of those people can't tell the difference between truth and lie.
  - kingofhdds 8y ago
    While it's probable that formal education levels correlate with political choices, it doesn't necessary imply that higher degree leads to better ones, or even reduces possibility of being manipulated. Also, every major player of every political fight knows, and has tools to "play to their advantage", it's not like some bad vs good fairytale. And if you are against all major players then you may want to consider that it is exactly yours opinion which eventually will be censored if the idea about mandatory purging of "bad information" wins.
    - mrleiter 8y ago
      Exactly. I was referring to formal education. And I didn't mean that a higher degree leads to better choices. But it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news. And while talking about education, we should also overhaul the way it is mostly taught - from simple memory functions to actual critical thinking and understanding. Go check any authoritarian or reactionary government - they cut spending in education, fighting poverty and social welfare. For exactly that reason: gaining more voters in the long term.
isoskeles 8y ago
Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? It seems like an unfair comparison to make, yet I see "educated" people do it a lot and have started taking anyone who does this less seriously. What I can't understand is how one reconciles the idea that "education is the solution" with "educated people keep saying dumb shit." Or even worse, some educated people are simply okay with dishonesty.
- pjc50 8y ago
  > Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? Yes? So long as the comparison is based on actual facts, both about the fascists and the present day?
  - isoskeles 8y ago
    The more pertinent facts in making such a comparison would be the tremendous death toll and brutality as a result of their leadership. I thought it was not okay eight and sixteen years ago, and it still looks to be not okay today, or not an argument with any intellectual weight to it. But "educated" people sure like it.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      The idea is to remove people from power before they get to have a death toll. Generally it becomes impossible to remove them during the terror.
hodgesrm 8y ago
> Again, education is at the core of a solution to this misinformation crisis. What proof do you have of this assertion? There are at least two reasons to be suspicious of the argument. 1.) It's self-serving. Many people who make it are themselves highly educated. It's a short step to advocating rule by philosopher kings, which has a very checkered history. [1] 2.) It seems easy to contradict. For example, one of the most effective ways to assess any political argument is to know who is funding it. It's hard to see how anyone can make informed decisions without such information. Level of education seems to be irrelevant here. It's also worth noting while the authors of the American Constitution were big fans of education, they put more faith in mechanisms like separation of powers and representative government to anchor the political system. In fact one of Madison's arguments in favor of education was to "multiply the educated individuals from among whom the people may elect a due portion of their public Agents of every description." [2] That's quite different from saying that everyone must have these qualities in equal measure. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king [2] http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch18s35.html http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch18s35....
B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
> We thought the Internet would bring prosperity and an explosion of knowledge growth. Sheesh, this is centuries long rinse-repeat with press, radio, TV ... You do get that, but more better advertising, and incidental worldview shaping, is what you get that really matters.

platz 8y ago

Yes, it is blame-shifting. Facebook's board knows exactly what it is doing. Are they going to take a hit from their shareholders given the choice? No. > We thought the Internet would bring prosperity and an explosion of knowledge growth Yes, but the movement also came with a mandate, that information and services should be free. That severly restricts the business models available. I dont think consumers can solve the problem easily. They are caught in behavior-modifying algorithms. The problem is a new business model needs to be created.

basurihn 8y ago

It certainly did connect less educated. This is a only part of the picture - the misinformation crisis also involves the miseducated. The quality of our collegiate has been much displaced by the rise of the true-believing college administrator with authority to suppress unorthodox curriculum and research. Facebook ALSO gives this cancer a platform.

Rjevski 8y ago
Facebook does not give the cancer a platform. Facebook is the cancer.
- justapassenger 8y ago
  So if Facebook is gone we’ll all reconnect in a kumbaya?

chrisseaton 8y ago

Is ‘less educated’ code for people with views different to yours?

mrleiter 8y ago
No, there are some less educated people who share the same views as me. But it is no secret that the degree of education correlates strongly with certain political views. And the people currently in power in America certainly know that and play that to their advantage. They know full well that their proposed solutions won't work a bit, but instead make them richer along the way. But the less educated people don't know that, they are being abused and mislead. I am not against conservative people and also not against people with different views. We live in a plural society and that is a good thing. It becomes a problem when some of those people can't tell the difference between truth and lie.
- kingofhdds 8y ago
  While it's probable that formal education levels correlate with political choices, it doesn't necessary imply that higher degree leads to better ones, or even reduces possibility of being manipulated. Also, every major player of every political fight knows, and has tools to "play to their advantage", it's not like some bad vs good fairytale. And if you are against all major players then you may want to consider that it is exactly yours opinion which eventually will be censored if the idea about mandatory purging of "bad information" wins.
  - mrleiter 8y ago
    Exactly. I was referring to formal education. And I didn't mean that a higher degree leads to better choices. But it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news. And while talking about education, we should also overhaul the way it is mostly taught - from simple memory functions to actual critical thinking and understanding. Go check any authoritarian or reactionary government - they cut spending in education, fighting poverty and social welfare. For exactly that reason: gaining more voters in the long term.

isoskeles 8y ago

Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? It seems like an unfair comparison to make, yet I see "educated" people do it a lot and have started taking anyone who does this less seriously. What I can't understand is how one reconciles the idea that "education is the solution" with "educated people keep saying dumb shit." Or even worse, some educated people are simply okay with dishonesty.

pjc50 8y ago
> Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? Yes? So long as the comparison is based on actual facts, both about the fascists and the present day?
- isoskeles 8y ago
  The more pertinent facts in making such a comparison would be the tremendous death toll and brutality as a result of their leadership. I thought it was not okay eight and sixteen years ago, and it still looks to be not okay today, or not an argument with any intellectual weight to it. But "educated" people sure like it.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    The idea is to remove people from power before they get to have a death toll. Generally it becomes impossible to remove them during the terror.

hodgesrm 8y ago

> Again, education is at the core of a solution to this misinformation crisis. What proof do you have of this assertion? There are at least two reasons to be suspicious of the argument. 1.) It's self-serving. Many people who make it are themselves highly educated. It's a short step to advocating rule by philosopher kings, which has a very checkered history. [1] 2.) It seems easy to contradict. For example, one of the most effective ways to assess any political argument is to know who is funding it. It's hard to see how anyone can make informed decisions without such information. Level of education seems to be irrelevant here. It's also worth noting while the authors of the American Constitution were big fans of education, they put more faith in mechanisms like separation of powers and representative government to anchor the political system. In fact one of Madison's arguments in favor of education was to "multiply the educated individuals from among whom the people may elect a due portion of their public Agents of every description." [2] That's quite different from saying that everyone must have these qualities in equal measure. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king [2] http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch18s35.html http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch18s35....

B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago

> We thought the Internet would bring prosperity and an explosion of knowledge growth. Sheesh, this is centuries long rinse-repeat with press, radio, TV ... You do get that, but more better advertising, and incidental worldview shaping, is what you get that really matters.