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After the Trump election where I interestingly enough found myself agreeing with a lot of the critique of the current political system coming from both Sanders
by ThomPete 8y ago
After the Trump election where I interestingly enough found myself agreeing with a lot of the critique of the current political system coming from both Sanders and Trump even though I would normally consider myself part of the liberal political spectrum (pro-abortion, against the death sentence, couldn't care less if gay people get married etc)
I started digging into things I had taken for granted such as Breibart being this racist place that only does fake news, Ben Shapiro probably was pretty extreme because he was alt right etc, Milo was a racist homophobe, Bannon was a white supremacist etc.
It ended up being a 6-month journey where I actually sat down and listened to what they had to say, which luckily is now possible because of the long interview formats that's been popping up on youtube like Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin etc.
And I must say that while I am still pro-abortion, pro gets married to whomever you want etc. I have a much better appreciation for what people I disagree with actually are saying and I can listen to it and actually argue without shaming them simply for being on the "wrong side". None of those people were the moral monsters I would normally read about whenever the alt-right was described. They were mostly people who actually could argue for their positions, positions I didn't always agree with but at least now understood better.
I have personally experienced now being shamed and people trying to go after my business simply because of some of my comments, even on HN.
The real danger of misinformation is the one we create for ourselves when we listen to what others say and interpret that.
I like the term strong-manning instead of straw-manning i.e. trying to position the argument of whoever you are debating in the strongest possible position rather than trying to go after their morals as the first thing.
In other words, most misinformation is the way we interpret things ourselves, not what was said or meant.
I would encourage you anyone to try just once in their life to take the "other sides" arguments seriously, hear them out and then figure out what exactly you disagree with them about and whether it's actually as much as you think when all comes to all.
- cwperkins 8y agoI wish I had more than one vote to give you sir, but alas, that is not how democracy works. People need to listen to one anothers concerns and avoid demonizing entire groups of people from the heinous acts of a few.
- noetic_techy 8y agoExactly. You and I have gone down the same rabbit hole and realized that its not as clear cut as they claim. The pompousness and shaming has to end in order for us all to come together. Blaming everything on this false spectre of "misinformation" is nonsense. It's a veiled attempt to treat everyone who disagree with you as stupid.
- acct1771 8y agoJumped this shark some time ago. Divisiveness is the number one enemy to personal freedom and free societies.
- cabaalis 8y agoIn a situation where ideas are readily available, the only winning game is to remove the credibility from your opponent. It's a logical fallacy, but things like discrediting witnesses has been done for decades. So convincing your followers that your "opponents" are racist, communist, etc is apparently proving to be the best way to win in a connected society. I say that because that's what the winners on both ends are engaging in, and are winning.
- _iyig 8y agoI completely agree, having found myself in a similar same situation. +1 to Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin; I'd also recommend the Hoover Institution's YouTube channel. Having watched a bunch of these videos, I actually feel more confident in my disagreement with certain political figures - for example, John Bolton - having heard them out and better understood their position. Of course, I'm also more sympathetic to some people and positions that I didn't fully understand before.