4 ms·

China’s social credit system doesn’t exist – at least not yet

jstanley 8y ago
The problem with this is a shifting of the "Overton window": it's not quite as bad as it could possibly be, so it's fine. We should be careful not to let the frog boil.
- simion314 8y ago
  I still prefer to read the actual facts about China and not exaggerations otherwise we look as fools if we debate with false arguments or examples.
  - ngcc_hk 8y ago
    True matter. But is the fact already available and the trend is ... ok or not ok. If they gas a few people and is that ok? Is it ok to kick you out from the whole train system ... or should this be done via a legal system and you ... Really what fact you need ...
    - simion314 8y ago
      >Really what fact you need ... The real fact, though we probably see the repeat of what happened after 9/11 when we were told that X had chemical/nuclear weapons when this was completely false not even an exaggeration. If China does X then report X not X^2
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  This works both ways. Sensationalist reporting shifts the Overton window in the same direction, whether or not the story is actually true. So you may end up with a situation, where a misrepresented party starts embracing bad behaviour faster than they otherwise would, simply because "if everyone already thinks we're the monsters, one extra bad act ain't gonna make a difference".
zeeed 8y ago
operative sentence: [the system is not real], or at least not yet
faragon 8y ago
"Misconception". Isn't real, yet.
huffmsa 8y ago
The delivery date is 2020. It's not 2020, yet.
viraptor 8y ago
Flagged for completely misleading title. s/isn't real/isn't fully implemented yet, but on the right course the 2020 and let us describe all the existing elements/ I expected better from an FP article.
ngcc_hk 8y ago
Not now; chinese great e-wall is also started from a humble beginnings. You start with ... we do not care ... then ... There is no debate here. Any non-democratic society or even democratic one with no effective oversight ... or even with effective oversight shall not classify its citizen like this.
adinobro 8y ago
Be aware that China doesn't have a national police check or a credit check system either private or public. Imagine trying to rent a house or get a loan without a credit check or police check. The social credit system is basically a police check and a credit check combined. A bunch of other groups and companies are trying to add extra things to it (smoking on the bullet trains) basically the same as public interest groups in every county. Some will probably succeed but 80 to 90% of it just a combination of: 1. A Credit Check 2. A police Check 3. A no-fly list If this is Orwellian then every western country is already miles ahead of them.
- NotAmazin 8y ago
  I appreciate you clarifying the incorrect representation of the system. People tend to assume everything in China is communism, it really is not. This is a capitalistic change.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  > Imagine trying to rent a house or get a loan without a credit check or police check. You mean like how it usually is? (UK) None of the places I've rented ever required a credit check. That includes a couple relatively recently when I was briefly nomadic thanks to recession. When I was a landlord for a few years I did not credit check. I've only rented once in the South East, perhaps it's different for letting agencies and landlords down there. Police check? For what? Only potential employers can ask for a criminal record check, and only some of those are allowed fuller details. Loans check credit history, for sure, but before loans were pushed credit checks were not a thing. You had to rely on the local bank manager, who would usually try and dissuade you from borrowing too much. Quite the reverse of what we have now. So perhaps all Western nations are not as far ahead as you appear to believe.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  > If this is Orwellian then every western country is already miles ahead of them. Yes, this is actually how some western countries look like from the outside. Awfully unfree surveillance police countries where people believe they are the most free.
jyz 8y ago
Peter Thiel said it in 0 to 1: China is one of those countries where it looks scary powerful from a foreigner’s perspective, but on the inside, people are panicking and really have no idea what they are doing most of the time. There’s this illusion of efficiency and order whereas the reality is inside China it is just as chaotic as any other country.

The problem with this is a shifting of the "Overton window": it's not quite as bad as it could possibly be, so it's fine. We should be careful not to let the frog boil.

simion314 8y ago
I still prefer to read the actual facts about China and not exaggerations otherwise we look as fools if we debate with false arguments or examples.
- ngcc_hk 8y ago
  True matter. But is the fact already available and the trend is ... ok or not ok. If they gas a few people and is that ok? Is it ok to kick you out from the whole train system ... or should this be done via a legal system and you ... Really what fact you need ...
  - simion314 8y ago
    >Really what fact you need ... The real fact, though we probably see the repeat of what happened after 9/11 when we were told that X had chemical/nuclear weapons when this was completely false not even an exaggeration. If China does X then report X not X^2
TeMPOraL 8y ago
This works both ways. Sensationalist reporting shifts the Overton window in the same direction, whether or not the story is actually true. So you may end up with a situation, where a misrepresented party starts embracing bad behaviour faster than they otherwise would, simply because "if everyone already thinks we're the monsters, one extra bad act ain't gonna make a difference".

zeeed 8y ago

operative sentence: [the system is not real], or at least not yet

faragon 8y ago

"Misconception". Isn't real, yet.

huffmsa 8y ago

The delivery date is 2020. It's not 2020, yet.

viraptor 8y ago

Flagged for completely misleading title. s/isn't real/isn't fully implemented yet, but on the right course the 2020 and let us describe all the existing elements/ I expected better from an FP article.

ngcc_hk 8y ago

Not now; chinese great e-wall is also started from a humble beginnings. You start with ... we do not care ... then ... There is no debate here. Any non-democratic society or even democratic one with no effective oversight ... or even with effective oversight shall not classify its citizen like this.

adinobro 8y ago

Be aware that China doesn't have a national police check or a credit check system either private or public. Imagine trying to rent a house or get a loan without a credit check or police check. The social credit system is basically a police check and a credit check combined. A bunch of other groups and companies are trying to add extra things to it (smoking on the bullet trains) basically the same as public interest groups in every county. Some will probably succeed but 80 to 90% of it just a combination of: 1. A Credit Check 2. A police Check 3. A no-fly list If this is Orwellian then every western country is already miles ahead of them.

NotAmazin 8y ago
I appreciate you clarifying the incorrect representation of the system. People tend to assume everything in China is communism, it really is not. This is a capitalistic change.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
> Imagine trying to rent a house or get a loan without a credit check or police check. You mean like how it usually is? (UK) None of the places I've rented ever required a credit check. That includes a couple relatively recently when I was briefly nomadic thanks to recession. When I was a landlord for a few years I did not credit check. I've only rented once in the South East, perhaps it's different for letting agencies and landlords down there. Police check? For what? Only potential employers can ask for a criminal record check, and only some of those are allowed fuller details. Loans check credit history, for sure, but before loans were pushed credit checks were not a thing. You had to rely on the local bank manager, who would usually try and dissuade you from borrowing too much. Quite the reverse of what we have now. So perhaps all Western nations are not as far ahead as you appear to believe.
zzzcpan 8y ago
> If this is Orwellian then every western country is already miles ahead of them. Yes, this is actually how some western countries look like from the outside. Awfully unfree surveillance police countries where people believe they are the most free.

jyz 8y ago

Peter Thiel said it in 0 to 1: China is one of those countries where it looks scary powerful from a foreigner’s perspective, but on the inside, people are panicking and really have no idea what they are doing most of the time. There’s this illusion of efficiency and order whereas the reality is inside China it is just as chaotic as any other country.