6 ms·

So tv stations, radio stations and some newspapers are advertising companies too? And if Microsoft makes Windows free and displays Ads to makr revenue they are

So tv stations, radio stations and some newspapers are advertising companies too? And if Microsoft makes Windows free and displays Ads to makr revenue they are suddenly an ad instead of tech company? And what about Google (actually Alphabet?) having multiple products out of which only a few make money by advertisement. Think of Android and Maps.

lstodd 8y ago
> So tv stations, radio stations and some newspapers are advertising companies too? Yes, they are. > And what about Google (actually Alphabet?) having multiple products out of which only a few make money by advertisement. Think of Android and Maps. It's still adtech. If some product doesn't make money by itself (citation needed however) it still feeds the data and lures the users. And fleeces them for the data. You get the picture.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  > Yes, they are. By this reasoning, Netflix isn't a media or tech company, it's a subscription company. Similarly, Comcast isn't a telecom company, it is also a subscription company, just like Netflix! This type of definition is so absurd as to be useless. The monetization system doesn't entirely define the company or industry.
  - hliyan 8y ago
    I'm having trouble understanding the strong emotional reactions this is creating. A business is generally categorized first on the basis of what it sells (e.g. a car company, real estate company, consulting company etc) and secondly on the basis of what methods they employ. Outside of Silicon Valley, the monetization system is the business.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    It's not about the monetization system, it's the business model, meaning what they sell, not how they sell it. Google and Facebook are ad networks (not advertising companies) because they sell advertising space to customers. Netflix is a media company because it sells original and licensed content to consumers (subscriptions just being a method of payment).
Twisell 8y ago
Some tv stations had become advertising company for sure. And same lake of concern is present for customer satisfaction. The metric used is "do they watch enough so my ads bring in enough cash?" And not "are my customers satisfied with my shows?". And it’s also why you can’t compare Netflix to regular tv stations. They sell contents to customers, they make no money with ads.
hliyan 8y ago
> So tv stations, radio stations and some newspapers are advertising companies too? If you have been keeping track of the quality of news and articles (now indiscriminately called "content") for the past twenty years, you will realize that it is in fact the case for many (though not all) such media companies.
nwellnhof 8y ago
It's a bit subjective, of course, but if a company makes most of its profit by selling ads why shouldn't we label it as an advertising company? Profit maximation is what ultimately drives a company and thinking of Google and most TV/radio stations or newspapers as ad companies helps a lot to understand the decisions they make.
- konschubert 8y ago
  Because we label a company by the thing that gives it it's competitive edge. Google's edge is search - so it's mostly a search company. Of course the monetisation scheme of a company matters in understanding it's actions - but it doesn't define what "kind" of company it is.
PavlovsCat 8y ago
> And if Microsoft makes Windows free and displays Ads to makr revenue they are suddenly an ad instead of tech company? Insofar as they shift from making the best OS they know how, from how to get the most eyeballs in front of ads, I'd say yes. It's interesting to compare the reaction to tech companies peddling ads, and this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18479383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18479383 If the ads don't take away from the technology, why in that case do the surrounding ads take away from the words? Who would you consider more of a cook, someone who makes the best meal they can, or someone who makes an acceptable meal that still makes people thirsty enough so they buy a lot of drinks? At what point does craftsmanship turn into selling out the craft for something else? Who do you think is more of an "actor's actor", or a "comedian's comedian": someone who sometimes compromises on maximizing gain for the love of their craft, or someone who just takes the highest paying gigs, regardless of quality? So on that sense, sure, they're all tech companies, but so are IBM and Oracle. Just like Adam Sandler is an actor and a comedian. As most fields it's a wide field, it has a high end, a bottom end, and a lot in between.
konschubert 8y ago
To expand on that: when we say that "Y is an X-company" then what we mean is that X is the thing that gives Y it's main competitive advantage. The monetisation scheme of a company is of course relevant when trying to understand the actions of the company, but I the English language, it we usually don't call companies by their monetisation scheme.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Maybe we should, though? Because calling companies by "it's main competitive advantage" leads to unending confusion. The rule of thumb seems to be: most companies don't give a shit about the actual product or service they provide. It's only a means to an end (profit), and if replacing their current product line with toilet paper would make them more profitable, they'd do it in a heartbeat. This means you can't really look at the product - or the promises made by sales&marketing about the value it provides - as a way to understand what the company will do. Their monetization scheme, however, makes it easier to predict future decision.
  - konschubert 8y ago
    But the fact that they are aiming for profit beyond everything else is already implied by the word "company" I'd say.

lstodd 8y ago

> So tv stations, radio stations and some newspapers are advertising companies too? Yes, they are. > And what about Google (actually Alphabet?) having multiple products out of which only a few make money by advertisement. Think of Android and Maps. It's still adtech. If some product doesn't make money by itself (citation needed however) it still feeds the data and lures the users. And fleeces them for the data. You get the picture.

TulliusCicero 8y ago
> Yes, they are. By this reasoning, Netflix isn't a media or tech company, it's a subscription company. Similarly, Comcast isn't a telecom company, it is also a subscription company, just like Netflix! This type of definition is so absurd as to be useless. The monetization system doesn't entirely define the company or industry.
- hliyan 8y ago
  I'm having trouble understanding the strong emotional reactions this is creating. A business is generally categorized first on the basis of what it sells (e.g. a car company, real estate company, consulting company etc) and secondly on the basis of what methods they employ. Outside of Silicon Valley, the monetization system is the business.
- manigandham 8y ago
  It's not about the monetization system, it's the business model, meaning what they sell, not how they sell it. Google and Facebook are ad networks (not advertising companies) because they sell advertising space to customers. Netflix is a media company because it sells original and licensed content to consumers (subscriptions just being a method of payment).

Twisell 8y ago

Some tv stations had become advertising company for sure. And same lake of concern is present for customer satisfaction. The metric used is "do they watch enough so my ads bring in enough cash?" And not "are my customers satisfied with my shows?". And it’s also why you can’t compare Netflix to regular tv stations. They sell contents to customers, they make no money with ads.

hliyan 8y ago

> So tv stations, radio stations and some newspapers are advertising companies too? If you have been keeping track of the quality of news and articles (now indiscriminately called "content") for the past twenty years, you will realize that it is in fact the case for many (though not all) such media companies.

nwellnhof 8y ago

It's a bit subjective, of course, but if a company makes most of its profit by selling ads why shouldn't we label it as an advertising company? Profit maximation is what ultimately drives a company and thinking of Google and most TV/radio stations or newspapers as ad companies helps a lot to understand the decisions they make.

konschubert 8y ago
Because we label a company by the thing that gives it it's competitive edge. Google's edge is search - so it's mostly a search company. Of course the monetisation scheme of a company matters in understanding it's actions - but it doesn't define what "kind" of company it is.

PavlovsCat 8y ago

> And if Microsoft makes Windows free and displays Ads to makr revenue they are suddenly an ad instead of tech company? Insofar as they shift from making the best OS they know how, from how to get the most eyeballs in front of ads, I'd say yes. It's interesting to compare the reaction to tech companies peddling ads, and this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18479383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18479383 If the ads don't take away from the technology, why in that case do the surrounding ads take away from the words? Who would you consider more of a cook, someone who makes the best meal they can, or someone who makes an acceptable meal that still makes people thirsty enough so they buy a lot of drinks? At what point does craftsmanship turn into selling out the craft for something else? Who do you think is more of an "actor's actor", or a "comedian's comedian": someone who sometimes compromises on maximizing gain for the love of their craft, or someone who just takes the highest paying gigs, regardless of quality? So on that sense, sure, they're all tech companies, but so are IBM and Oracle. Just like Adam Sandler is an actor and a comedian. As most fields it's a wide field, it has a high end, a bottom end, and a lot in between.

konschubert 8y ago

To expand on that: when we say that "Y is an X-company" then what we mean is that X is the thing that gives Y it's main competitive advantage. The monetisation scheme of a company is of course relevant when trying to understand the actions of the company, but I the English language, it we usually don't call companies by their monetisation scheme.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Maybe we should, though? Because calling companies by "it's main competitive advantage" leads to unending confusion. The rule of thumb seems to be: most companies don't give a shit about the actual product or service they provide. It's only a means to an end (profit), and if replacing their current product line with toilet paper would make them more profitable, they'd do it in a heartbeat. This means you can't really look at the product - or the promises made by sales&marketing about the value it provides - as a way to understand what the company will do. Their monetization scheme, however, makes it easier to predict future decision.
- konschubert 8y ago
  But the fact that they are aiming for profit beyond everything else is already implied by the word "company" I'd say.