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I'm not sure I agree. What you're describing is 'business'. A startup is a company that's focused on something innovative and effectively high growth - somethi

I'm not sure I agree. What you're describing is 'business'. A startup is a company that's focused on something innovative and effectively high growth - something a VC could invest in. Nobody is referring to the new Taco restaurant down the street as a 'startup' even though their revenues will be more than $1 M this year. VC only makes sense in high growth businesses with large markets. Otherwise they are just businesses. And 'an afternoon of coding' isn't really even that either - it takes more effort just to do the proper incorporation. So these words I think have meaning. 'Project' as the commenter described is apt ... but I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of 'word' emerged that caught all the hype and was overused.

PopeDotNinja 8y ago
I've never seen a definition of a startup that I like. Here's my personal sniff test... To me, a business is an entity with paying customers. To me, a startup is an entity that wants paying customers before it has them, or has them now but once did not (and it remains a startup until people stop calling it that).
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  I'm not sure I agree at all. 99% of business in this situation, you would never call a startup. New law firm. New dental office. Your uncle started doing roofing, asks your little brother to work his summer off from Uni with him on roofing. A new golf course installed in a coastal area. A 50 new homes going up in the suburbs. The empty spot on the corner is now a little corner store - beer, wine, chips. New taco restaurant down the street. Nobody is calling these situations (i.e. the vast majority of new business) 'startups. So clearly there is a kind of de-facto popular lexicon - and it's not 'startup'. And many new businesses are just called new businesses. Like the guy who started selling modified skis at the ski resort. That's usually referred to as 'small business'. A group of people doing some kind of new thing who are maybe not seeking funding but could possibly seek VC funding ... this is more in the realm of what we call 'startup', wherein there is generally a larger market opportunity, and possibly higher growth ... this is startup.
  - PopeDotNinja 8y ago
    A law office can be a start-up. "I want to start up a law office." Words (in English) require context to have much meaning. Startup could certainly mean "investor fueled boom or bust hypergrowth ambition rocket" at a YC demo day. Or it can simply mean a company one started. I'd argue that a trait shared by many startups is talking about themselves in the best light possible to get people focused on their future potential, and to me that leaves room for considering a bunch of mega success wannabes cranking out code on Twitch as startups in a startup competition. Shipping, failing fast, getting feedback, pitching... They all sound like startups to me, so that's what I'll call them. May the best startup win!
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      'Startup' is a noun. It's not "I want to start up something". In reality, nobody is calling their new law firm a startup. Nobody is referring to said law firms as startups. Now - if it's a specialized kind of firm that sells services online, like a 'law marketplace' or something, maybe they will call it a startup. Yes - the term startup is quite varied ... However, the vast majority of business generally don't apply, so there is at least some kind of 'critical mass' to what we mean bu the word. Generally 'a business' is not 'a startup'.
      - badestrand 8y ago
        I agree and I think technology and scale also play a role. The law-tech company Atrium for example probably gets called a startup, and I think it is because it has high ambitions (nation-wide) and is tech-enabled. I am sure that without ambition (i.e. just serving a single city) or without tech (i.e. just building one conventional law firm in every city) it would not be called a startup.
      - kd5bjo 8y ago
        In general, a startup is a business that doesn't yet have a stable customer base or business model. What you're describing is a "tech startup", and the modifier often gets dropped in the tech press, for obvious reasons. The investment press also drops the modifier, because few other startups are interesting to them.
- jessems 8y ago
  I recently wrote about this discussion here: https://www.indiehackers.com/@jessems/its-not-a-startup-the-evolving-definition-in-a-24-hour-live-streamed-bootstrapped-world-acb03ba9fe https://www.indiehackers.com/@jessems/its-not-a-startup-the-... The term startup is ambiguous and the fact that Steve Blank, Eris Reiss and Paul Graham have their own definitions says something. It's hard to not call Pieter Levels' Nomadlist a startup.
  - qnsi 8y ago
    I dont see how nomadlist is a startup. I understand your want to redefine things, I myself am working on a small side-project indiestyle, but its not a startup.
    - madamelic 8y ago
      >I dont see how nomadlist is a startup. It's infinitely scalable and makes a profit. I'm not sure your qualifications of a startup, but that's better than 90% of TechCrunch startups who are reliant on humans to scale and burning cash.
deleted 8y ago
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ravenstine 8y ago
Everyone deaperately wants to be able to tell people that they've created a "startup".

PopeDotNinja 8y ago

I've never seen a definition of a startup that I like. Here's my personal sniff test... To me, a business is an entity with paying customers. To me, a startup is an entity that wants paying customers before it has them, or has them now but once did not (and it remains a startup until people stop calling it that).

sonnyblarney 8y ago
I'm not sure I agree at all. 99% of business in this situation, you would never call a startup. New law firm. New dental office. Your uncle started doing roofing, asks your little brother to work his summer off from Uni with him on roofing. A new golf course installed in a coastal area. A 50 new homes going up in the suburbs. The empty spot on the corner is now a little corner store - beer, wine, chips. New taco restaurant down the street. Nobody is calling these situations (i.e. the vast majority of new business) 'startups. So clearly there is a kind of de-facto popular lexicon - and it's not 'startup'. And many new businesses are just called new businesses. Like the guy who started selling modified skis at the ski resort. That's usually referred to as 'small business'. A group of people doing some kind of new thing who are maybe not seeking funding but could possibly seek VC funding ... this is more in the realm of what we call 'startup', wherein there is generally a larger market opportunity, and possibly higher growth ... this is startup.
- PopeDotNinja 8y ago
  A law office can be a start-up. "I want to start up a law office." Words (in English) require context to have much meaning. Startup could certainly mean "investor fueled boom or bust hypergrowth ambition rocket" at a YC demo day. Or it can simply mean a company one started. I'd argue that a trait shared by many startups is talking about themselves in the best light possible to get people focused on their future potential, and to me that leaves room for considering a bunch of mega success wannabes cranking out code on Twitch as startups in a startup competition. Shipping, failing fast, getting feedback, pitching... They all sound like startups to me, so that's what I'll call them. May the best startup win!
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    'Startup' is a noun. It's not "I want to start up something". In reality, nobody is calling their new law firm a startup. Nobody is referring to said law firms as startups. Now - if it's a specialized kind of firm that sells services online, like a 'law marketplace' or something, maybe they will call it a startup. Yes - the term startup is quite varied ... However, the vast majority of business generally don't apply, so there is at least some kind of 'critical mass' to what we mean bu the word. Generally 'a business' is not 'a startup'.
    - badestrand 8y ago
      I agree and I think technology and scale also play a role. The law-tech company Atrium for example probably gets called a startup, and I think it is because it has high ambitions (nation-wide) and is tech-enabled. I am sure that without ambition (i.e. just serving a single city) or without tech (i.e. just building one conventional law firm in every city) it would not be called a startup.
    - kd5bjo 8y ago
      In general, a startup is a business that doesn't yet have a stable customer base or business model. What you're describing is a "tech startup", and the modifier often gets dropped in the tech press, for obvious reasons. The investment press also drops the modifier, because few other startups are interesting to them.
jessems 8y ago
I recently wrote about this discussion here: https://www.indiehackers.com/@jessems/its-not-a-startup-the-evolving-definition-in-a-24-hour-live-streamed-bootstrapped-world-acb03ba9fe https://www.indiehackers.com/@jessems/its-not-a-startup-the-... The term startup is ambiguous and the fact that Steve Blank, Eris Reiss and Paul Graham have their own definitions says something. It's hard to not call Pieter Levels' Nomadlist a startup.
- qnsi 8y ago
  I dont see how nomadlist is a startup. I understand your want to redefine things, I myself am working on a small side-project indiestyle, but its not a startup.
  - madamelic 8y ago
    >I dont see how nomadlist is a startup. It's infinitely scalable and makes a profit. I'm not sure your qualifications of a startup, but that's better than 90% of TechCrunch startups who are reliant on humans to scale and burning cash.

deleted 8y ago

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ravenstine 8y ago

Everyone deaperately wants to be able to tell people that they've created a "startup".