5 ms·

Gadgets? No thanks. The fundamental problem with tourism isn't crowds (although they are unpleasant), it's inflation - tourists have more money to spend and bus

Gadgets? No thanks. The fundamental problem with tourism isn't crowds (although they are unpleasant), it's inflation - tourists have more money to spend and businesses will naturally align themselves to suck up that money. Compare with situation of huge student populations in small towns in UK: their interests don't align with the incumbent community, therefore tension ensues. The effect is two-fold: increased prices for consumers and increased rent for businesses (with useful places like hardware shops, local pubs and locksmiths being pushed out by Steak and Lobster and Angus Steak House). Using IoT to spread tourists around the city (however that's supposed to work) just brings the problem to more and more communities. London turning into the next Venice isn't going to be stopped by some techies in SV (who, incidentally, ruined up San Francisco in a similar manner to the way tourists are doing so here).

CryptoPunk 8y ago
That's like thinking that a city exporting its goods to a foreign market with high income consumers causes inflation in the city. The businesses that cater to this influx of tourist spending employ locals, which pushes up local wages and spending. The goods/services produced are also not scarce. They can be increased in supply. In fact higher volume retail shops result in more economies of scale, which can reduce local prices.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  This is simply not true. Look at Santa Barbara for example: high tourism, high prices and locals are forced to distant outskirts. Local spending doesn’t increase because prices simply go up and locals shop at cheaper places outside of tourist hub. I doubt their wages are any higher either.
  - CryptoPunk 8y ago
    Why do you assume that local businesses generating more revenue doesn't contribute to local incomes? It does, almost by definition. In a housing supply restricted market, tourism can contribute to higher housing costs, but that can be fixed by removing constraints on housing supply, like zoning. And even when this effect is present, its effect on quality of life is counter-acted by the positive effect of tourism spending on local incomes.
    - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
      > Why do you assume that local businesses generating more revenue doesn't contribute to local incomes? Local businesses do not always generate income from tourists. For example, some of the destinations complaining about overtourism are upset at cruise ships, where the tourists do all their eating, drinking, and sleeping on the boat, and they only walk through the city during the day without spending any significant amount of money.
      - CryptoPunk 8y ago
        The reports I've seen all give a very high average spending level for tourists. I don't think there's any credible argument that they don't inject massive consumer spending into the local economy.
- icsllaf 8y ago
  >The businesses that cater to this influx of tourist spending employ locals Tourism is an industry that pays less than most. Most tourism/hospitality jobs are low-income and menial which compared to the exponential rise in both property value and everyday goods, is peanuts. Hawaii, a state whose largest contributor to GDP is tourism has 1 in 6 residents living under the poverty line. The lack of other jobs and focus towards locals drives most people to poverty.
  - CryptoPunk 8y ago
    You can raise wages just as effectively by increasing the demand for low-skilled labour as by increasing demand for high-skilled labour. The direction that the upward pressure on wages is coming from changes, but it's there nonetheless. If the locality is fortunate enough to have home-sharing, the profits from tourism accommodations also flow to local pockets, creating potentially thousands of high income micro-hoteliers. Moreover, not all tourism spending directly contributes to what are traditionally considered "tourism jobs". For example it contributes to more revenues for restaurants, retail businesses, etc. As for Hawaii, I think a much better explanation for its poverty levels is the migration of people from other parts of the US to enjoy Hawaii's homeless-friendly climate.
- tompccs 8y ago
  No - retail space and housing have fixed supply. It's a finite resource, especially in historic city centres. Labour is also finite - would you want to live in a city where the only employment is in the hospitality sector? Secondly - as I have already mentioned, tourists are price-insensitive, so businesses have no incentive to reduce prices by employing "economies of scale".

CryptoPunk 8y ago

That's like thinking that a city exporting its goods to a foreign market with high income consumers causes inflation in the city. The businesses that cater to this influx of tourist spending employ locals, which pushes up local wages and spending. The goods/services produced are also not scarce. They can be increased in supply. In fact higher volume retail shops result in more economies of scale, which can reduce local prices.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
This is simply not true. Look at Santa Barbara for example: high tourism, high prices and locals are forced to distant outskirts. Local spending doesn’t increase because prices simply go up and locals shop at cheaper places outside of tourist hub. I doubt their wages are any higher either.
- CryptoPunk 8y ago
  Why do you assume that local businesses generating more revenue doesn't contribute to local incomes? It does, almost by definition. In a housing supply restricted market, tourism can contribute to higher housing costs, but that can be fixed by removing constraints on housing supply, like zoning. And even when this effect is present, its effect on quality of life is counter-acted by the positive effect of tourism spending on local incomes.
  - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
    > Why do you assume that local businesses generating more revenue doesn't contribute to local incomes? Local businesses do not always generate income from tourists. For example, some of the destinations complaining about overtourism are upset at cruise ships, where the tourists do all their eating, drinking, and sleeping on the boat, and they only walk through the city during the day without spending any significant amount of money.
    - CryptoPunk 8y ago
      The reports I've seen all give a very high average spending level for tourists. I don't think there's any credible argument that they don't inject massive consumer spending into the local economy.
icsllaf 8y ago
>The businesses that cater to this influx of tourist spending employ locals Tourism is an industry that pays less than most. Most tourism/hospitality jobs are low-income and menial which compared to the exponential rise in both property value and everyday goods, is peanuts. Hawaii, a state whose largest contributor to GDP is tourism has 1 in 6 residents living under the poverty line. The lack of other jobs and focus towards locals drives most people to poverty.
- CryptoPunk 8y ago
  You can raise wages just as effectively by increasing the demand for low-skilled labour as by increasing demand for high-skilled labour. The direction that the upward pressure on wages is coming from changes, but it's there nonetheless. If the locality is fortunate enough to have home-sharing, the profits from tourism accommodations also flow to local pockets, creating potentially thousands of high income micro-hoteliers. Moreover, not all tourism spending directly contributes to what are traditionally considered "tourism jobs". For example it contributes to more revenues for restaurants, retail businesses, etc. As for Hawaii, I think a much better explanation for its poverty levels is the migration of people from other parts of the US to enjoy Hawaii's homeless-friendly climate.
tompccs 8y ago
No - retail space and housing have fixed supply. It's a finite resource, especially in historic city centres. Labour is also finite - would you want to live in a city where the only employment is in the hospitality sector? Secondly - as I have already mentioned, tourists are price-insensitive, so businesses have no incentive to reduce prices by employing "economies of scale".