4 ms·

You're looking at the 90th percentile, he's looking at the 99th percentile. Claiming things like "everyone uses UTC internally" is obviously wrong when many peo

You're looking at the 90th percentile, he's looking at the 99th percentile. Claiming things like "everyone uses UTC internally" is obviously wrong when many people just a few years ago were still setting up systems in localtime when dual booting with Windows. Upgrading to ext4 is also not a rare edge case.

tedunangst 8y ago
Even if you're using an offset from CMOS time, it's still UTC internally and in the filesystem.
chungy 8y ago
Upgrading to ext4 is not extremely rare, but the recommended procedure involves mkfs and copying files over anyway: https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/UpgradeToExt4 https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/UpgradeToExt4 In-place upgrades do have the potential to leave some non-default options for the final ext4 file system, such as 128B inodes instead of the 256B ones, which is where certain features like reduced timestamp granularity comes in.
- apenwarr 8y ago
  In any case, my system was installed from scratch quite recently using native ext4. As others have pointed out and as I linked in the article, it’s likely a kernel issue. I assume many people have the same thing.
kbenson 8y ago
> Upgrading to ext4 is also not a rare edge case. Ext4 has been stable for over a decade. It's been a default filesystem on many distributions. It was the default on RHEL 6[1] which was first released over 8 years ago, and the default for the ext variants after that. It's been in use in Debian since 6.0/Squeeze or later[2], which was 2011. It's been in use in Ubuntu since 9.10[3], released in late 2009. To be clear, your argument is that it's not a rare edge case to have a filesystem that was originally only in common use as the default variant 6-8 years ago or more for the vast majority of installations, which has persisted and since been upgraded? 1: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/storage_administration_guide/ch-ext4 https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp... 2: https://wiki.debian.org/FileSystem https://wiki.debian.org/FileSystem 3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview#ext4_by_default https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview#ext4_b...
zamadatix 8y ago
> when many people just a few years ago were still setting up systems in localtime when dual booting with Windows I don't see what the user has to do with how time is internally kept on the system.
- gumby 8y ago
  It's a Windows issue (I don't keep up with windows so perhaps this was changed in the past few years, but I suspect MS hasn't done so due to back compatibility issues).
  - tedunangst 8y ago
    Windows 7 was released in 2009. It's been more than a few years.
    - przemoc 8y ago
      True, but even though you can set: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation] "RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001 It isn't flawless in practice, unfortunately. Internet Time Update no longer works then.
    - yellowapple 8y ago
      Is it the default? If so, then that's kinda neat.

tedunangst 8y ago

Even if you're using an offset from CMOS time, it's still UTC internally and in the filesystem.

chungy 8y ago

Upgrading to ext4 is not extremely rare, but the recommended procedure involves mkfs and copying files over anyway: https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/UpgradeToExt4 https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/UpgradeToExt4 In-place upgrades do have the potential to leave some non-default options for the final ext4 file system, such as 128B inodes instead of the 256B ones, which is where certain features like reduced timestamp granularity comes in.

apenwarr 8y ago
In any case, my system was installed from scratch quite recently using native ext4. As others have pointed out and as I linked in the article, it’s likely a kernel issue. I assume many people have the same thing.

kbenson 8y ago

> Upgrading to ext4 is also not a rare edge case. Ext4 has been stable for over a decade. It's been a default filesystem on many distributions. It was the default on RHEL 6[1] which was first released over 8 years ago, and the default for the ext variants after that. It's been in use in Debian since 6.0/Squeeze or later[2], which was 2011. It's been in use in Ubuntu since 9.10[3], released in late 2009. To be clear, your argument is that it's not a rare edge case to have a filesystem that was originally only in common use as the default variant 6-8 years ago or more for the vast majority of installations, which has persisted and since been upgraded? 1: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/storage_administration_guide/ch-ext4 https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp... 2: https://wiki.debian.org/FileSystem https://wiki.debian.org/FileSystem 3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview#ext4_by_default https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview#ext4_b...

zamadatix 8y ago

> when many people just a few years ago were still setting up systems in localtime when dual booting with Windows I don't see what the user has to do with how time is internally kept on the system.

gumby 8y ago
It's a Windows issue (I don't keep up with windows so perhaps this was changed in the past few years, but I suspect MS hasn't done so due to back compatibility issues).
- tedunangst 8y ago
  Windows 7 was released in 2009. It's been more than a few years.
  - przemoc 8y ago
    True, but even though you can set: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation] "RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001 It isn't flawless in practice, unfortunately. Internet Time Update no longer works then.
  - yellowapple 8y ago
    Is it the default? If so, then that's kinda neat.