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Exactly. And look at the freedoms we've given up, billions of dollars we've spent (maybe more - we'll never know how much the NSA/CIA put into their data-collec

by cronix 8y ago

Exactly. And look at the freedoms we've given up, billions of dollars we've spent (maybe more - we'll never know how much the NSA/CIA put into their data-collecting infrastructure), hours wasted (you used to be able to arrive at the airport 20 minutes before your flight left, and still board on time), etc. IIRC - it "only" cost the 9/11 terrorists about $1M to pull it off. Terrorism is quite effective. It's almost like an amplified reflection DDoS attack - cheap to pull off and expensive to defend against. https://www.aclu.org/other/top-ten-abuses-power-911 https://www.aclu.org/other/top-ten-abuses-power-911 "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin

tzs 8y ago
> "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin OT historical trivia time. When Franklin wrote that, the "essential liberty" he was talking about was the government's liberty to tax, and by "purchase" literally meant to buy with money. The Pennsylvania Assembly was trying to raise money to defend the frontier during the French and Indian war. This would include taxing the lands of the Penn family (which ruled Pennsylvania). The Governor, appointed by the Penn family, kept vetoing this, each time finding some new excuse that made little sense to Franklin and the Assembly. Franklin's quote was in a letter he wrote to the Governor concerning this situation, rejecting the notion that the Assembly should have to give up its taxation power over the Penn family in order to get a bill approved to purchase arms to supply those on the frontier. He later did write something similar but about personal liberty rather than government liberty. I can't quote it, though, because I stupidly saved a link to a Reddit comment that cited it rather than the direct citation, and the Reddit comment has been deleted.
- MauranKilom 8y ago
  Tried ceddit or archive.org?
  - jodrellblank 8y ago
    or pushshift.io, which has an archive of every Reddit comment ever and is what ceddit uses to work.
- rimliu 8y ago
  https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said

by cronix 8y ago

tzs 8y ago

> "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin OT historical trivia time. When Franklin wrote that, the "essential liberty" he was talking about was the government's liberty to tax, and by "purchase" literally meant to buy with money. The Pennsylvania Assembly was trying to raise money to defend the frontier during the French and Indian war. This would include taxing the lands of the Penn family (which ruled Pennsylvania). The Governor, appointed by the Penn family, kept vetoing this, each time finding some new excuse that made little sense to Franklin and the Assembly. Franklin's quote was in a letter he wrote to the Governor concerning this situation, rejecting the notion that the Assembly should have to give up its taxation power over the Penn family in order to get a bill approved to purchase arms to supply those on the frontier. He later did write something similar but about personal liberty rather than government liberty. I can't quote it, though, because I stupidly saved a link to a Reddit comment that cited it rather than the direct citation, and the Reddit comment has been deleted.

MauranKilom 8y ago
Tried ceddit or archive.org?
- jodrellblank 8y ago
  or pushshift.io, which has an archive of every Reddit comment ever and is what ceddit uses to work.
rimliu 8y ago
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said