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The sheer stupidity of having a wood shingle roof in a place with the Santa Ana winds astounds me. That’s wasn’t against code? This was such a fascinating art

The sheer stupidity of having a wood shingle roof in a place with the Santa Ana winds astounds me. That’s wasn’t against code? This was such a fascinating article. Classic government intervention, focusing on large projects that are ineffective and not backed by current science instead of direct interaction with the problem door to door in lots of smaller expenditures that would actually be effective.

thrower123 8y ago
I'm amazed at how many places appear to be opposed to steel roofing. Everywhere I look, it's asphalt shingles in new construction. I'm in the northeast, so the main problem here is snow load - which is a PITA with shingles, and you've gotta shovel your roof off - not fire, but still, if you've got swirling embers that land on a steel roof, the worst they'll do is scorch the paint.
- snarfy 8y ago
  Steel roofs are three times the price.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    I don't think that's accurate. Maybe for standing seam, but the screw-down panels aren't that pricy, and it takes less work than nailing shingles.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Are they noise dampened? What is their sound profile during precip? Also, if your house is on fire and firefighters need in thru the roof, steel makes it harder for them to get in.
    - 14 8y ago
      Any home I have been in you can definitely hear the rain falling. But it is one of those noises I think you can find relaxing like a fire crackling. The thing I disliked about the metal roof was the major decrease in cell phone signal.
      - luckydata 8y ago
        I have a perfect solution for all those issues. Bonus: it's been done for centuries in Europe, tried and tested, it's called "clay shingles". You can observe them... everywhere you go in Europe. https://eagleroofing.com/lifespan-tile-roof/ https://eagleroofing.com/lifespan-tile-roof/ Bonus: clay shingles are the longest lasting material you can cover a roof with, and you can repair it by sections. It also looks way better than the crap we use to cover roofs in the USA.
        robocat 8y ago
        Not perfect: one anecdote from maire above to disprove: "My childhood home burned in the Oakland hills fire - and it had a tile roof -- so roofing material is not enough. Having a defensible space also seems key."
        cronix 8y ago
        But did that home burn from embers landing on the tiled roof, or from being consumed by the actual fire?
        exolymph 8y ago
        My guesses: Either more expensive or not earthquake-resistant.
    - olliej 8y ago
      Rain in California?
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    That's the market telling you not to build in a fire-prone area. Paying a gardening crew to thin the vegatation around your house to provide defensible space is also the market at work.
  - tlrobinson 8y ago
    Do they have to be replaced as often?
creddit 8y ago
What makes you so sure the perspective in the article is the more scientifically accurate one? It was written without almost ANY opposing research being quoted. I found it very hard to come away from this article wholly convinced it had found the best perspective on the issue. It’s also the case that the article focused mostly on preventing home fires caused by forest fires but then the article itself shows this is a very rare phenomenon. Not exactly something that should be a core focus in the first place.
maire 8y ago
Wood shingled roofs are currently against code. The wood shingle example was from 1980. Current code even disallows wood decks. My childhood home burned in the Oakland hills fire - and it had a tile roof -- so roofing material is not enough. Having a defensible space also seems key. On a related note - I watched a youtube video on a woman driving up and down the streets of Paradise to show people if their homes survived. The homes that survived all seem to be surrounded by a watered lawn. This reinforces maintaining a defensible space is key to survival.
- thaumaturgy 8y ago
  In this particular disaster, there are more factors than defensible space. Some well-maintained, well-built homes with large yard spaces are ash now; other homes with no defensible space at all came out unharmed, including one with several cars in the yard and a 5 gallon can labeled "flammable" right against the garage. Removing fuel from on and around your home is a good idea regardless. Beyond that, I don't think most of us are qualified to guess on the fire behavior in Paradise (or Redding, or Napa, or Santa Rosa...). I will say that of the buildings still standing in Paradise, a disproportionate number of them seem to be brand new construction (<5 years old).
  - maire 8y ago
    I am on another list with fire fighters all expressing their opinions. Here is what one said: I just got back from Butte Co - the ignition point in Pulga wasn’t deep forest, but grasses, shrubs and forest patches littered with downed and dead woody debris. Seems like a big fuel break by Pentz Road could have helped. It wouldn’t have saved Magalia and Concow but would have given Paradise residents more time to evacuate.
  - RosanaAnaDana 8y ago
    I don't know if you've ever been to or through Paradise, but its very similar to many foothill communities in the north and south Sierras, in the sense that the town was effectively built into the surrounding forests. The forest in that area is primarily Ponderosa, and pretty decent sized ones as well. In this sense, and I can speak from authority as I've spent far more time in Paradise than I would have preferred (reasons below), pretty much the entire town had negative defensible space. Most of the houses in Paradise are (were) fully surrounded by 50-120 foot pondos and under a closed canopy. Likewise, most of the new construction was built on the ridge (Skyway) between Paradise and Chico, which is primarily California live oak and grassland. A huge mitigating factor in all of this however, is the level of poverty in and around the (former?) town of Paradise. Not sure how well this has been represented in the media, but Paradise as a community is poor as shit. There are just about -shit_all- jobs (outside the hospital) in that area that don't involve selling cigarettes and lotto tickets. Paradise, Concow, Magalia, pretty much some of the poorest areas of California I know of. Many of the families in that area lived on properties that had been built over several generations, handed down from gold-rush era mining claims. These aren't people who keep insurance on anything. Nor are they the kind of people who concern themselves with maintaining a defensible space around their homes.

thrower123 8y ago

I'm amazed at how many places appear to be opposed to steel roofing. Everywhere I look, it's asphalt shingles in new construction. I'm in the northeast, so the main problem here is snow load - which is a PITA with shingles, and you've gotta shovel your roof off - not fire, but still, if you've got swirling embers that land on a steel roof, the worst they'll do is scorch the paint.

snarfy 8y ago
Steel roofs are three times the price.
- thrower123 8y ago
  I don't think that's accurate. Maybe for standing seam, but the screw-down panels aren't that pricy, and it takes less work than nailing shingles.
- mc32 8y ago
  Are they noise dampened? What is their sound profile during precip? Also, if your house is on fire and firefighters need in thru the roof, steel makes it harder for them to get in.
  - 14 8y ago
    Any home I have been in you can definitely hear the rain falling. But it is one of those noises I think you can find relaxing like a fire crackling. The thing I disliked about the metal roof was the major decrease in cell phone signal.
    - luckydata 8y ago
      I have a perfect solution for all those issues. Bonus: it's been done for centuries in Europe, tried and tested, it's called "clay shingles". You can observe them... everywhere you go in Europe. https://eagleroofing.com/lifespan-tile-roof/ https://eagleroofing.com/lifespan-tile-roof/ Bonus: clay shingles are the longest lasting material you can cover a roof with, and you can repair it by sections. It also looks way better than the crap we use to cover roofs in the USA.
      - robocat 8y ago
        Not perfect: one anecdote from maire above to disprove: "My childhood home burned in the Oakland hills fire - and it had a tile roof -- so roofing material is not enough. Having a defensible space also seems key."
        cronix 8y ago
        But did that home burn from embers landing on the tiled roof, or from being consumed by the actual fire?
      - exolymph 8y ago
        My guesses: Either more expensive or not earthquake-resistant.
  - olliej 8y ago
    Rain in California?
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  That's the market telling you not to build in a fire-prone area. Paying a gardening crew to thin the vegatation around your house to provide defensible space is also the market at work.
- tlrobinson 8y ago
  Do they have to be replaced as often?

creddit 8y ago

What makes you so sure the perspective in the article is the more scientifically accurate one? It was written without almost ANY opposing research being quoted. I found it very hard to come away from this article wholly convinced it had found the best perspective on the issue. It’s also the case that the article focused mostly on preventing home fires caused by forest fires but then the article itself shows this is a very rare phenomenon. Not exactly something that should be a core focus in the first place.

maire 8y ago

Wood shingled roofs are currently against code. The wood shingle example was from 1980. Current code even disallows wood decks. My childhood home burned in the Oakland hills fire - and it had a tile roof -- so roofing material is not enough. Having a defensible space also seems key. On a related note - I watched a youtube video on a woman driving up and down the streets of Paradise to show people if their homes survived. The homes that survived all seem to be surrounded by a watered lawn. This reinforces maintaining a defensible space is key to survival.

thaumaturgy 8y ago
In this particular disaster, there are more factors than defensible space. Some well-maintained, well-built homes with large yard spaces are ash now; other homes with no defensible space at all came out unharmed, including one with several cars in the yard and a 5 gallon can labeled "flammable" right against the garage. Removing fuel from on and around your home is a good idea regardless. Beyond that, I don't think most of us are qualified to guess on the fire behavior in Paradise (or Redding, or Napa, or Santa Rosa...). I will say that of the buildings still standing in Paradise, a disproportionate number of them seem to be brand new construction (<5 years old).
- maire 8y ago
  I am on another list with fire fighters all expressing their opinions. Here is what one said: I just got back from Butte Co - the ignition point in Pulga wasn’t deep forest, but grasses, shrubs and forest patches littered with downed and dead woody debris. Seems like a big fuel break by Pentz Road could have helped. It wouldn’t have saved Magalia and Concow but would have given Paradise residents more time to evacuate.
- RosanaAnaDana 8y ago
  I don't know if you've ever been to or through Paradise, but its very similar to many foothill communities in the north and south Sierras, in the sense that the town was effectively built into the surrounding forests. The forest in that area is primarily Ponderosa, and pretty decent sized ones as well. In this sense, and I can speak from authority as I've spent far more time in Paradise than I would have preferred (reasons below), pretty much the entire town had negative defensible space. Most of the houses in Paradise are (were) fully surrounded by 50-120 foot pondos and under a closed canopy. Likewise, most of the new construction was built on the ridge (Skyway) between Paradise and Chico, which is primarily California live oak and grassland. A huge mitigating factor in all of this however, is the level of poverty in and around the (former?) town of Paradise. Not sure how well this has been represented in the media, but Paradise as a community is poor as shit. There are just about -shit_all- jobs (outside the hospital) in that area that don't involve selling cigarettes and lotto tickets. Paradise, Concow, Magalia, pretty much some of the poorest areas of California I know of. Many of the families in that area lived on properties that had been built over several generations, handed down from gold-rush era mining claims. These aren't people who keep insurance on anything. Nor are they the kind of people who concern themselves with maintaining a defensible space around their homes.