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it's a real shame that the concept of raising certain taxes in the UK (specifically income tax and corporation tax) has become an anathema to british politician

it's a real shame that the concept of raising certain taxes in the UK (specifically income tax and corporation tax) has become an anathema to british politicians. We still need to get the money from somewhere, so instead of fairly increasing progressive taxes, we get lots of little (often unfair) hidden tax rises and huge cuts in public spending. The weird part is, the british public go along with this. The Conservatives are actively talking about more corporation tax cuts at a time where we still have a large defecit and huge problems with underspending in the public sector.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> The weird part is, the British public go along with this. I don't think they're 'going along with it' - you're making it sound like they don't know what they want. UK society doesn't have much of an anti-government movement like in the US, but low taxation and leaner governance is a pretty common, mainstream preference here. I think if you speak to a diverse group of voters in the UK you will find a lot of support for austerity and low taxation. It's not even a Conservative thing! See my sibling comment for an example. The NHS is a strong outlier in people's preference for extra funding. Child education is another. But for social security? I think the appetite in the UK is less than you think it is.
- raesene9 8y ago
  Well I'd argue they don't know what they want really, in that they want two divergent things, "better public services" and "low taxation" Personally I didn't mention Social security, I know the attitude to people claiming benefits from those not on them in the UK I was thinking of the problems in local gov. spending where the central grant has radically decreased, the problems in police spending with far fewer front line officers, the problem in the courts system which is having major impacts there. The bit about "going along with it" was primarily about the corporation tax cuts. Those cut revenue and don't directly help citizens (unless you believe in trickle down economics!). A more rational approach would be to want lower personal taxes surely?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > in that they want two divergent things, "better public services" and "low taxation" They think this can be achieved be being more efficient (all the newspaper articles about NHS wastage and middle managers), and spending less money on things they don't want (overseas aid is a common example.) So the two things aren't necessarily at odds. > unless you believe in trickle down economics! I think a lot of people do. > A more rational approach would be to want lower personal taxes surely? I think a lot of British people see a large successful business as a virtuous success story, and so want them 'punished' less with less taxes. (I'm not saying any of this is my opinion, but it's definitely what a lot of people here think.)
    - raesene9 8y ago
      I'm not sure about the successful business piece. Look at the protests over tax dodging by companies. I'd say that kind of attitude is common in the US, but less so in the UK. Albeit I'm seeing things from a Scottish rather than English perspective, but I've not seen an appetite for lower company taxes.. My guess for continued support of this kind of policy is that people think other things are more important (e.g. brexit) + tribalism in voting habits (we've always voted that way round here) + of course the terminally broken FPTP voting system.
      - repolfx 8y ago
        Company taxes are being lowered because last time that was done, tax take went up not down. That is lower corporation tax = more tax revenue and it's revenue that matters.
        raesene9 8y ago
        for the UK? you got a citation for lower rates == increased revenue? the only close example I can think of in the UK is the higher rate income tax band bit and that turned out to be clever accountants banking on the fact that a change in gov. would lower the rate so they time shifted income into the period where it was lower...
yardstick 8y ago
My local (Labour, not that it really matters) council has taken pride in not raising council tax for the last 5+ years. Yet inflation has pushed up wages and expenses and somehow they expect to maintain the same quality of local government. Impossible!
- raesene9 8y ago
  plus of course the ongoing reductions in central funding for local authorities https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/council-funding-be-further-cut-half-over-next-two-years-lga-warns https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/council-funding-be-furth...
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  That's a valid objection, though I think council tax is a particularly tricky issue to deal with in the UK – it's a highly regressive tax, but reform is difficult to achieve while the people who would be most affected by a proper reform would be Conservative voters.
beaconstudios 8y ago
it's not so much Conservatism as Britain having a strongly individualist, liberal (as in liberty) political history.
EliRivers 8y ago
I'm so sick of receiving tax cuts I don't need and will literally never notice, alongside cuts to public services that some people really really need being cut, that the Tory party will never win my vote. Well, I say never; never is a long time, but as long as they keep trying to win my favour by cutting my taxes, they can get bent. I'm not some kind of Pavlovian econo-rational robot, and I object to them treating me as one. These days I tend to vote for the most crazy left-wing party on the ballot, but if there isn't one (there's usually one in local elections, isn't one in nationals), not bother.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  Heh, I thought I was maybe the only one. I will pay hundreds of pounds less tax in the next tax year. It seems like an absolutely pointless tax cut. It will make essentially no difference to my quality of life. In the meantime, local services that I use are deteriorating – let alone the ones that people in much more need than I use – and the police force and health service are continuing to head towards an absolute meltdown. There are thousands of people in my local council area relying on charity-run food banks. It's a baffling state of affairs.
  - raesene9 8y ago
    Another +1 for me on that. I'd happily forgoe the tax cut I'm getting this year for better public services. This myth that gets rolled out that any increase in tax will cause higher rate payers to flee the country in droves is really harmful, I'm happy to pay tax if it improves the services provided by the country.
- repolfx 8y ago
  Why don't you just donate the extra money you don't need to charity instead? There's no obligation to fund all social activities through tax. For instance if you don't need a few hundred pounds per year, why not buy a friend private health insurance.
  - DanBC 8y ago
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Personally I'd like to see corporation tax go, it gives an unfair advantage to large companies who can shift their profits to low tax economies. We would be better off moving that tax back to dividends, capital gains and property which are much harder to avoid.

chrisseaton 8y ago

> The weird part is, the British public go along with this. I don't think they're 'going along with it' - you're making it sound like they don't know what they want. UK society doesn't have much of an anti-government movement like in the US, but low taxation and leaner governance is a pretty common, mainstream preference here. I think if you speak to a diverse group of voters in the UK you will find a lot of support for austerity and low taxation. It's not even a Conservative thing! See my sibling comment for an example. The NHS is a strong outlier in people's preference for extra funding. Child education is another. But for social security? I think the appetite in the UK is less than you think it is.

raesene9 8y ago
Well I'd argue they don't know what they want really, in that they want two divergent things, "better public services" and "low taxation" Personally I didn't mention Social security, I know the attitude to people claiming benefits from those not on them in the UK I was thinking of the problems in local gov. spending where the central grant has radically decreased, the problems in police spending with far fewer front line officers, the problem in the courts system which is having major impacts there. The bit about "going along with it" was primarily about the corporation tax cuts. Those cut revenue and don't directly help citizens (unless you believe in trickle down economics!). A more rational approach would be to want lower personal taxes surely?
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > in that they want two divergent things, "better public services" and "low taxation" They think this can be achieved be being more efficient (all the newspaper articles about NHS wastage and middle managers), and spending less money on things they don't want (overseas aid is a common example.) So the two things aren't necessarily at odds. > unless you believe in trickle down economics! I think a lot of people do. > A more rational approach would be to want lower personal taxes surely? I think a lot of British people see a large successful business as a virtuous success story, and so want them 'punished' less with less taxes. (I'm not saying any of this is my opinion, but it's definitely what a lot of people here think.)
  - raesene9 8y ago
    I'm not sure about the successful business piece. Look at the protests over tax dodging by companies. I'd say that kind of attitude is common in the US, but less so in the UK. Albeit I'm seeing things from a Scottish rather than English perspective, but I've not seen an appetite for lower company taxes.. My guess for continued support of this kind of policy is that people think other things are more important (e.g. brexit) + tribalism in voting habits (we've always voted that way round here) + of course the terminally broken FPTP voting system.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      Company taxes are being lowered because last time that was done, tax take went up not down. That is lower corporation tax = more tax revenue and it's revenue that matters.
      - raesene9 8y ago
        for the UK? you got a citation for lower rates == increased revenue? the only close example I can think of in the UK is the higher rate income tax band bit and that turned out to be clever accountants banking on the fact that a change in gov. would lower the rate so they time shifted income into the period where it was lower...

yardstick 8y ago

My local (Labour, not that it really matters) council has taken pride in not raising council tax for the last 5+ years. Yet inflation has pushed up wages and expenses and somehow they expect to maintain the same quality of local government. Impossible!

raesene9 8y ago
plus of course the ongoing reductions in central funding for local authorities https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/council-funding-be-further-cut-half-over-next-two-years-lga-warns https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/council-funding-be-furth...
matthewmacleod 8y ago
That's a valid objection, though I think council tax is a particularly tricky issue to deal with in the UK – it's a highly regressive tax, but reform is difficult to achieve while the people who would be most affected by a proper reform would be Conservative voters.

beaconstudios 8y ago

it's not so much Conservatism as Britain having a strongly individualist, liberal (as in liberty) political history.

EliRivers 8y ago

I'm so sick of receiving tax cuts I don't need and will literally never notice, alongside cuts to public services that some people really really need being cut, that the Tory party will never win my vote. Well, I say never; never is a long time, but as long as they keep trying to win my favour by cutting my taxes, they can get bent. I'm not some kind of Pavlovian econo-rational robot, and I object to them treating me as one. These days I tend to vote for the most crazy left-wing party on the ballot, but if there isn't one (there's usually one in local elections, isn't one in nationals), not bother.

matthewmacleod 8y ago
Heh, I thought I was maybe the only one. I will pay hundreds of pounds less tax in the next tax year. It seems like an absolutely pointless tax cut. It will make essentially no difference to my quality of life. In the meantime, local services that I use are deteriorating – let alone the ones that people in much more need than I use – and the police force and health service are continuing to head towards an absolute meltdown. There are thousands of people in my local council area relying on charity-run food banks. It's a baffling state of affairs.
- raesene9 8y ago
  Another +1 for me on that. I'd happily forgoe the tax cut I'm getting this year for better public services. This myth that gets rolled out that any increase in tax will cause higher rate payers to flee the country in droves is really harmful, I'm happy to pay tax if it improves the services provided by the country.
repolfx 8y ago
Why don't you just donate the extra money you don't need to charity instead? There's no obligation to fund all social activities through tax. For instance if you don't need a few hundred pounds per year, why not buy a friend private health insurance.
- DanBC 8y ago

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

Personally I'd like to see corporation tax go, it gives an unfair advantage to large companies who can shift their profits to low tax economies. We would be better off moving that tax back to dividends, capital gains and property which are much harder to avoid.