18 ms·

Beyond cars getting more efficient, a lot of cities have also dramatically reduced their share of trips made by car. Paris reduced car mode share by 45% since

Beyond cars getting more efficient, a lot of cities have also dramatically reduced their share of trips made by car. Paris reduced car mode share by 45% since 1990: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/the-automotive-liberation-of-paris/550718/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/the-automotiv...

flexie 8y ago
And people stay in (inner) cities longer. Before, people had kids earlier and they moved to the suburbs when they had kids. Now they have kids later and more and more stay in the city even after having kids.
- fpoling 8y ago
  In Norway in cities a lot of new apartments are OK even for families with 3-4 kids. As a result some schools in the cities previously considered for closing down became overcrowded. And this is really a new development. Even twenty years ago a big family implied moving to a suburb.
  - lifeisstillgood 8y ago
    How can the apartment work for 5 or 6 people? Are apartments simply larger, or is it a sort of make do with less space Tokyo wise thing?
    - fpoling 8y ago
      The apartments became bigger, over 100 square meters or 1000 square feet’s.
      - lifeisstillgood 8y ago
        And consequently more expensive? I mean raising children in the city is usually a question of paying a lot of money or living three to a bed. This does not sound like a public policy solution, but parents paid more for bigger flats
        fpoling 8y ago
        In Norway until recently even with 2 kinds the assumption was that the family needs to move to a suburb either to own house or to rekkehus, a terraced house that shares walls when few others (hills and mountains made that a good fit). This was much more expensive than an apartment in the city. What newer apartment blocks brought was an option to stay in the city. Surely a 3-bedroom apartment with a big living room and a kitchen costs more, but prices are comparable with own houses in far away suburbs. That gives an option to stay with kids if not in the city center then at least within a short ride from it in public transport.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    If it helps, people notice. My wife and I had a lot of conversations along the lines of "maybe we should just move to a country that doesn't make having a kid so damn hard" and Norway was near the top of the list. The excellent support for families with kids who have autism (though ours does not, it was a concern genetically) helps as well.
baxtr 8y ago
Also, it's gotten to point that a lot of people hate cars and commuting. I love biking to work and getting on the subway whenever weather is bad. I think driving a car is just a big waste of time
- CalRobert 8y ago
  Indeed. I was recently house hunting for a cheap place outside the city (I love the city but I work fully remote and I love buying a cheap house with no loan even more). Every time I had to drive to the house, it was a huge pain in the ass. The agents wanted to meet in the middle of the week, so I'd have to drive in the morning, find a coffee shop or library to work from, drive to the house, go back to the coffee shop, then finally drive home. It was a couple hours+ dead time every day. Where I ended up buying I took the train (working the whole way), rode my bike 15 minutes, viewed the house, rode back to the train station, and took the train home (working the whole way) - whole thing fit in a regular work day + lunch break. Now if I lose my job and wind up having to commute, I'll still have the train time to work, do personal projects, etc. but if I'd been in a car I'd just be sitting there getting out of shape and wasting my time (and trashing the planet). Even though living in the country means I'll definitely need to buy a car, it should (hopefully) only be one for our three person household, and the drive vs. train visits to view places was a helpful reminder of how much I hate car commuting.
- gambiting 8y ago
  I actually prefer driving to literally any other form of commuting - I get to sit in an air conditioned personal seat with my own music/podcasts/audio books playing, it's great. In comparison biking/walking is just miserable, and public transport is actively unpleasant. But then I actively enjoy driving, even if it's just for the commute.
the_clarence 8y ago
The new generations in Europe bother less and less to get a driver’s license. Most of my friends don’t have one. Public transport is that good.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  Do most of your friends live in cities? How do your french friends in the rural countryside manage without cars?
  - jordanbeiber 8y ago
    Isn’t urbanization a thing?
    - iwiririwo 8y ago
      As in "people moving to the city", it is. But in my area, the city density never reaches a level where anything except the car is really convenient. Sure you can take the bus. If you're back home at 11, willing make a 15 minute ride an hour's, and pay the same as for a cheap car.
      - jordanbeiber 8y ago
        Fair enough. But as a whole the people of the world move together in ever exanding lumps. One (there are many pros and cons) slightly positive side effect is that efficency have to increase. It’s unavoidable as humans in general seems to have a will to survive. What seems to slow it down is mainly an unbridled capitalism, which is why for example China in a weird and somewhat unexpected fashion leads the way. EV’s are not only more energy efficient, they also have a positive impact when it comes to proximity pollution.
      - freeflight 8y ago
        This is really an issue of the quality of public transport and general infrastructure. Southern Germany, Bavaria, has a very good railway system. Even the regional railway lines often get you faster where you need to go than a car would, especially during rush hours. There's also the rarely mentioned factor of parking space becoming increasingly harder to find and more expensive in city centers. In my region, this is being solved by building affordable, or even free, parking decks near subway stations on the fringes of the city. But even with that the parking situation still remains tense.

flexie 8y ago

And people stay in (inner) cities longer. Before, people had kids earlier and they moved to the suburbs when they had kids. Now they have kids later and more and more stay in the city even after having kids.

fpoling 8y ago
In Norway in cities a lot of new apartments are OK even for families with 3-4 kids. As a result some schools in the cities previously considered for closing down became overcrowded. And this is really a new development. Even twenty years ago a big family implied moving to a suburb.
- lifeisstillgood 8y ago
  How can the apartment work for 5 or 6 people? Are apartments simply larger, or is it a sort of make do with less space Tokyo wise thing?
  - fpoling 8y ago
    The apartments became bigger, over 100 square meters or 1000 square feet’s.
    - lifeisstillgood 8y ago
      And consequently more expensive? I mean raising children in the city is usually a question of paying a lot of money or living three to a bed. This does not sound like a public policy solution, but parents paid more for bigger flats
      - fpoling 8y ago
        In Norway until recently even with 2 kinds the assumption was that the family needs to move to a suburb either to own house or to rekkehus, a terraced house that shares walls when few others (hills and mountains made that a good fit). This was much more expensive than an apartment in the city. What newer apartment blocks brought was an option to stay in the city. Surely a 3-bedroom apartment with a big living room and a kitchen costs more, but prices are comparable with own houses in far away suburbs. That gives an option to stay with kids if not in the city center then at least within a short ride from it in public transport.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  If it helps, people notice. My wife and I had a lot of conversations along the lines of "maybe we should just move to a country that doesn't make having a kid so damn hard" and Norway was near the top of the list. The excellent support for families with kids who have autism (though ours does not, it was a concern genetically) helps as well.

baxtr 8y ago

Also, it's gotten to point that a lot of people hate cars and commuting. I love biking to work and getting on the subway whenever weather is bad. I think driving a car is just a big waste of time

CalRobert 8y ago
Indeed. I was recently house hunting for a cheap place outside the city (I love the city but I work fully remote and I love buying a cheap house with no loan even more). Every time I had to drive to the house, it was a huge pain in the ass. The agents wanted to meet in the middle of the week, so I'd have to drive in the morning, find a coffee shop or library to work from, drive to the house, go back to the coffee shop, then finally drive home. It was a couple hours+ dead time every day. Where I ended up buying I took the train (working the whole way), rode my bike 15 minutes, viewed the house, rode back to the train station, and took the train home (working the whole way) - whole thing fit in a regular work day + lunch break. Now if I lose my job and wind up having to commute, I'll still have the train time to work, do personal projects, etc. but if I'd been in a car I'd just be sitting there getting out of shape and wasting my time (and trashing the planet). Even though living in the country means I'll definitely need to buy a car, it should (hopefully) only be one for our three person household, and the drive vs. train visits to view places was a helpful reminder of how much I hate car commuting.
gambiting 8y ago
I actually prefer driving to literally any other form of commuting - I get to sit in an air conditioned personal seat with my own music/podcasts/audio books playing, it's great. In comparison biking/walking is just miserable, and public transport is actively unpleasant. But then I actively enjoy driving, even if it's just for the commute.

the_clarence 8y ago

The new generations in Europe bother less and less to get a driver’s license. Most of my friends don’t have one. Public transport is that good.

chrisseaton 8y ago
Do most of your friends live in cities? How do your french friends in the rural countryside manage without cars?
- jordanbeiber 8y ago
  Isn’t urbanization a thing?
  - iwiririwo 8y ago
    As in "people moving to the city", it is. But in my area, the city density never reaches a level where anything except the car is really convenient. Sure you can take the bus. If you're back home at 11, willing make a 15 minute ride an hour's, and pay the same as for a cheap car.
    - jordanbeiber 8y ago
      Fair enough. But as a whole the people of the world move together in ever exanding lumps. One (there are many pros and cons) slightly positive side effect is that efficency have to increase. It’s unavoidable as humans in general seems to have a will to survive. What seems to slow it down is mainly an unbridled capitalism, which is why for example China in a weird and somewhat unexpected fashion leads the way. EV’s are not only more energy efficient, they also have a positive impact when it comes to proximity pollution.
    - freeflight 8y ago
      This is really an issue of the quality of public transport and general infrastructure. Southern Germany, Bavaria, has a very good railway system. Even the regional railway lines often get you faster where you need to go than a car would, especially during rush hours. There's also the rarely mentioned factor of parking space becoming increasingly harder to find and more expensive in city centers. In my region, this is being solved by building affordable, or even free, parking decks near subway stations on the fringes of the city. But even with that the parking situation still remains tense.