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For US readers, diesel cars are around 30% more economical than petrol cars, and most European countries charge less tax on diesel, meaning it is 5-20% cheaper

by fyfy18 8y ago

For US readers, diesel cars are around 30% more economical than petrol cars, and most European countries charge less tax on diesel, meaning it is 5-20% cheaper at the pump (diesel costs more to make than petrol, but in Europe taxes make up ~60% of transport fuel costs). I wonder if overall the economic benefits were worth it, based on what evidence is coming to light regarding the health effects of diesel vs petrol.

pgeorgi 8y ago
> regarding the health effects of diesel vs petrol There's a known solution to sort out the SO2 emission, but it would cost a bit more. The problem isn't pushing diesel over petrol, the problem is letting the car vendors cheat so blatantly, apparently with political backing (in Germany at least).
- idontpost 8y ago
  > There's a known solution to sort out the SO2 emission, but it would cost a bit more. Not if you're Volkswagen.
oh_sigh 8y ago
I'm an American, and I have a really distinct 'smell memory'(?) of cities I visit whenever I happen to be in Europe. I only realized a few days ago that this was actually just the diffuse smell of diesel exhaust.
Markoff 8y ago
that's just not truth, its old data diesel cost MORE than petrol already even in Europe and modern diesel engines consume as much as modern petrol engine with automatic transmission, in past diesel used to be more efficient, but this benefit was wiped out
- fyfy18 8y ago
  Source? In most of Europe (the UK is one exception I know of) diesel costs less at the pump than petrol. The cars themselves cost a little more, but the fuel usually is cheaper. Excluding hybrids, the current generation of petrol engines (as they historically have done) have a lower fuel economy that diesel. A new VW Passat for example can be configured with a 1.5l petrol engine which achieves 53.3mpg (UK) or a 2.0l diesel engine that achieves 68.9mpg (UK) [0]. Diesel fuel itself has around 15% more energy per volume than petrol, and the properties of its combustion just make it more efficient than petrol, so I don't see how this will ever change, unless a new method of combustion is adopted. I don't really see that happening though, as hybrid and EV technology will likely take over from pure ICE vehicles. [0] https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/app/configurator/vw-gb/en/passat-saloon/31305/38726/s?page=engine https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/app/configurator/vw-gb/en/passa...

by fyfy18 8y ago

pgeorgi 8y ago

> regarding the health effects of diesel vs petrol There's a known solution to sort out the SO2 emission, but it would cost a bit more. The problem isn't pushing diesel over petrol, the problem is letting the car vendors cheat so blatantly, apparently with political backing (in Germany at least).

idontpost 8y ago
> There's a known solution to sort out the SO2 emission, but it would cost a bit more. Not if you're Volkswagen.

oh_sigh 8y ago

I'm an American, and I have a really distinct 'smell memory'(?) of cities I visit whenever I happen to be in Europe. I only realized a few days ago that this was actually just the diffuse smell of diesel exhaust.

Markoff 8y ago

that's just not truth, its old data diesel cost MORE than petrol already even in Europe and modern diesel engines consume as much as modern petrol engine with automatic transmission, in past diesel used to be more efficient, but this benefit was wiped out

fyfy18 8y ago
Source? In most of Europe (the UK is one exception I know of) diesel costs less at the pump than petrol. The cars themselves cost a little more, but the fuel usually is cheaper. Excluding hybrids, the current generation of petrol engines (as they historically have done) have a lower fuel economy that diesel. A new VW Passat for example can be configured with a 1.5l petrol engine which achieves 53.3mpg (UK) or a 2.0l diesel engine that achieves 68.9mpg (UK) [0]. Diesel fuel itself has around 15% more energy per volume than petrol, and the properties of its combustion just make it more efficient than petrol, so I don't see how this will ever change, unless a new method of combustion is adopted. I don't really see that happening though, as hybrid and EV technology will likely take over from pure ICE vehicles. [0] https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/app/configurator/vw-gb/en/passat-saloon/31305/38726/s?page=engine https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/app/configurator/vw-gb/en/passa...