7 ms·

Some SUVs with 4-cyl engines and CVTs get equal or better mileage then late 90s commuter cars.

by akeck 8y ago

ip26 8y ago
Which, given the last twenty years of fairly impressive engine technological advancement, is in some senses a travesty.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Reminds me of looking at the Volkwagen Beetle's MPG as a timeline and how it sadly started getting worse over time despite having a respectable 30s decades earlier.
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    Isn't that because they got heavier (better safety features and structural integrity) and got more powerful engines? The original design can barely cope with modern highway speeds, with dangerously slow acceleration, and if you get into a crash at those speeds, you're dead.
    - ip26 8y ago
      All generally true statements, but we've taken it pretty far. The average vehicle weighs something like twice what it did thirty years ago, and where 40hp used to be adequate fifty or sixty years ago, and 120hp could be "sporty" thirty years ago, many modern cars with less than 200 horses are described as underpowered today. Tangent, "can barely cope with modern highway speeds", well, why does the highway speed limit have to be 65mph or 75mph or 80mph anyway? People got by when it was 55mph. Now, I'm not calling for the return of 55mph, but I'd like to point out that highway speeds are not natural law. Raising them was a choice- a choice that was one of many small pieces to arriving at where we are today, that is to say without much improvement in fuel economy.
      - war1025 8y ago
        Speed limits actually used to be about what they are today or higher until the oil crisis in the 70s when they enacted the national 55mph limit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
      - Nasrudith 8y ago
        Highway speeds are also a bit of an arms race in themselves. The danger is in when you can't accelerate as expected compared to everbody else. Since 70s 'muscle cars' now have worse zero to sixty acceleration times than modern econoboxes who aren't even making it a priority. Just having a sweet sports car that floor it to sixty in fractions of a second isn't a danger in itself so long as used /safely/. It is when everybody does it that having an old junker that can't starts to become a bit of a hazard and congestion issue due to having to wait for bigger gaps. It is a bit of a matter of conventions akin to driving on the left or right side of the road - while there may be some fringe situational benefits in some circumstances it really doesn't matter what you do so long as everybody does the same thing. In a bit of irony unusually following the law when few others do can itself create bits of hazard.
thrower123 8y ago
My V8 half-ton pickup truck gets better mileage than many 90s sedans.
- rasz 8y ago
  because "many 90s sedans" in US came in V8 straight from 60s, try comparing against Jetta, Corolla or Civic.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    That's kind of comparing apples and watermelons. My truck tips the scale at between three and four times the tonnage of such a compact car. And still I'm getting better than half their mileage. It's a far cry from the 90s model of the same truck, that was getting single-digit mileage.
    - dorfsmay 8y ago
      > comparing apples and watermelons You are the one who started with the comparison! > My truck tips the scale If you use it to do something you could with a normal car like commuting or shopping, does it matter? A lot of people I know who have pickups use the bed 3 or 4 times a year. Renting one when needed would make a lot more sense.
  - AmVess 8y ago
    Which is completely wrong. The top selling cars in the 90's had 4 and 6 cylinder engines.
    - rasz 8y ago
      He didnt say top selling, he was comparing to Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car, anything Panther body, most shipped with 1960s 5 liter Windsor v8s in the nineties. Even in top selling you had V8 Ford Taurus SHO. Otherwise he would have to look at Camry, Corolla and Civics with no way of coming to a brilliant "my truck is so fuel efficient" conclusion.
adrianN 8y ago
Now if we taxed SUVs properly so that people buy cars that weigh as much as a 90s commuter car, but have a 2019 engine in them...

Some SUVs with 4-cyl engines and CVTs get equal or better mileage then late 90s commuter cars.

by akeck 8y ago

Some SUVs with 4-cyl engines and CVTs get equal or better mileage then late 90s commuter cars.

ip26 8y ago

Which, given the last twenty years of fairly impressive engine technological advancement, is in some senses a travesty.

Nasrudith 8y ago
Reminds me of looking at the Volkwagen Beetle's MPG as a timeline and how it sadly started getting worse over time despite having a respectable 30s decades earlier.
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  Isn't that because they got heavier (better safety features and structural integrity) and got more powerful engines? The original design can barely cope with modern highway speeds, with dangerously slow acceleration, and if you get into a crash at those speeds, you're dead.
  - ip26 8y ago
    All generally true statements, but we've taken it pretty far. The average vehicle weighs something like twice what it did thirty years ago, and where 40hp used to be adequate fifty or sixty years ago, and 120hp could be "sporty" thirty years ago, many modern cars with less than 200 horses are described as underpowered today. Tangent, "can barely cope with modern highway speeds", well, why does the highway speed limit have to be 65mph or 75mph or 80mph anyway? People got by when it was 55mph. Now, I'm not calling for the return of 55mph, but I'd like to point out that highway speeds are not natural law. Raising them was a choice- a choice that was one of many small pieces to arriving at where we are today, that is to say without much improvement in fuel economy.
    - war1025 8y ago
      Speed limits actually used to be about what they are today or higher until the oil crisis in the 70s when they enacted the national 55mph limit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
    - Nasrudith 8y ago
      Highway speeds are also a bit of an arms race in themselves. The danger is in when you can't accelerate as expected compared to everbody else. Since 70s 'muscle cars' now have worse zero to sixty acceleration times than modern econoboxes who aren't even making it a priority. Just having a sweet sports car that floor it to sixty in fractions of a second isn't a danger in itself so long as used /safely/. It is when everybody does it that having an old junker that can't starts to become a bit of a hazard and congestion issue due to having to wait for bigger gaps. It is a bit of a matter of conventions akin to driving on the left or right side of the road - while there may be some fringe situational benefits in some circumstances it really doesn't matter what you do so long as everybody does the same thing. In a bit of irony unusually following the law when few others do can itself create bits of hazard.

thrower123 8y ago

My V8 half-ton pickup truck gets better mileage than many 90s sedans.

rasz 8y ago
because "many 90s sedans" in US came in V8 straight from 60s, try comparing against Jetta, Corolla or Civic.
- thrower123 8y ago
  That's kind of comparing apples and watermelons. My truck tips the scale at between three and four times the tonnage of such a compact car. And still I'm getting better than half their mileage. It's a far cry from the 90s model of the same truck, that was getting single-digit mileage.
  - dorfsmay 8y ago
    > comparing apples and watermelons You are the one who started with the comparison! > My truck tips the scale If you use it to do something you could with a normal car like commuting or shopping, does it matter? A lot of people I know who have pickups use the bed 3 or 4 times a year. Renting one when needed would make a lot more sense.
- AmVess 8y ago
  Which is completely wrong. The top selling cars in the 90's had 4 and 6 cylinder engines.
  - rasz 8y ago
    He didnt say top selling, he was comparing to Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car, anything Panther body, most shipped with 1960s 5 liter Windsor v8s in the nineties. Even in top selling you had V8 Ford Taurus SHO. Otherwise he would have to look at Camry, Corolla and Civics with no way of coming to a brilliant "my truck is so fuel efficient" conclusion.

adrianN 8y ago

Now if we taxed SUVs properly so that people buy cars that weigh as much as a 90s commuter car, but have a 2019 engine in them...