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I am extremely disappointed in the FDA’s milqutoast response. Teenage vaping is an epidemic. It’s an incredible problem at the school where I teach. The USB-A s

I am extremely disappointed in the FDA’s milqutoast response. Teenage vaping is an epidemic. It’s an incredible problem at the school where I teach. The USB-A sized vape units just litter the bathrooms and parking lots. The media has also failed it’s obligations. Most news articles are practically advertisements for e-cigarettes, promoting them as smoking cessation tools and practically harmless compared to other tobacco products. They are not FDA approved and the evidence for their efficacy and safety is sketchy at best.

bobcallme 8y ago
> ...at the school where I teach. You are partially responsible for this. Why is it the first response to blame everyone else but it is never the fault of those who are on the front lines (teachers, parents, people in the community)? I am stick and tired of the parents who can't F' talk to their kids ("the government needs to do more!"), school administrators who are not doing their job (last time I checked, having any tobacco / nicotine products on school grounds is quite illegal for both students and faculty : with fines and possible jail time) and the fact that there are much more dire issues in many communities that need to be addressed (maybe the opioid and Heroin epidemic?). The fact that there are much more harmful things that teens can get a hold of should be a priority over this FUD. > The media has also failed it’s obligations. Most news articles are practically advertisements for e-cigarettes, promoting them as smoking cessation tools and practically harmless compared to other tobacco products. They are not FDA approved and the evidence for their efficacy and safety is sketchy at best. The media has no obligation to you or me to do anything. E-cigarettes have helped quite a few people I know stop smoking (to the point that they don't even vape anymore). Running factually inaccurate ads like this [1] NSFW is much more harmful than any AD sponsored by big tobacco / e-cigarette companies. Lying to teens is not going to have the desired effect that you are looking for and it's going to make them want to do the opposite. As for the health effects, it is going to be just like anything else that can have undesired / dangerous substances if it comes from a questionable source. I'm sure that e-cigarettes are much better than inhaling traditional combustible cigarettes (I'm not denying that there could be health issues if use continued over X time). [1] NSFW FDA AD / The Real Cost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYuyS1Oq8gY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYuyS1Oq8gY Edit: missing word
- Amezarak 8y ago
  > You are partially responsible for this. Why is it the first response to blame everyone else but it is never the fault of those who are on the front lines (teachers, parents, people in the community)? The article explicitly discusses how easy it is for teenagers to vape in secret, without parents or teachers knowing. "Matt" in the article was able to keep it a secret from his parents for two years. When his parents found out, they absolutely did talk to him. But he was already an addict. > having any tobacco / nicotine products on school grounds is quite illegal for both students and faculty : with fines and possible jail time I don't know where you live, but this certainlky isn't true everywhere. Smoking generally isn't allowed in school buildings anymore (possibly there may be a few schools with old-school faculty smoking lounges, I don't know), but many or most places allow faculty to smoke outside. This of course ignores the problem with vaping anyway - it's much harder to detect. There's no smoke smell, and vapers often believe they have a right to vape anywhere and everywhere, because "it's not smoke." This is certainly true for kids in school. The article even mentions how the teenagers were avoiding being caught. What are you going to do, strip search every day? > E-cigarettes have helped quite a few people I know stop smoking That's great. That doesn't excuse their easy availability and the clear marketing toward children. That's how the media and government need to be held accountable. > there are much more dire issues in many communities that need to be addressed (maybe the opioid and Heroin epidemic?). That there are more dire issues doesn't mean we can't tackle less dire ones. The real tragedy is if the government had been on the ball, this would have never been a problem in the first place. E-cigs should have been much more heavily restricted, no flavorings allowed, etc., then people could have still quit smoking and we wouldn't have a teenage nicotine addiction epidemic. As it is, e-cigs have been sold as something basically completely safe and fun, and consequently millions of children are now addicts. Also, from the article: > “Nicotine may disrupt the formation of circuits in the brain that control attention and learning,” said Dr. Rachel Boykan, a clinical associate professor of pediatrics at Stony Brook University School of Medicine and an executive member of the American Academy of Pediatrics’ section on tobacco control. “And there is a higher risk of them subsequently becoming tobacco smokers.” E-cigarettes helped your friends stop smoking. Great! But apparently they're helping other people start.
  - 8y ago
Amezarak 8y ago
I know. I've been sounding the alarm on this for years, to no avail. People do not understand what is happening amongst teenagers with vaping. There are millions more people addicted to nicotine that never would have been absent vaping. We were winning the war, thanks to sound policy moves. E-cigarettes might be an okay solution for helping smokers to quit smoking. But the easy availability and marketing has led to an absolute and total epidemic, and no one seems to care. People get incredibly defensive about this. I've been met with outright denial that it was even a possibility. Go back through my commenting history even on HN, and you'll see people telling me kids will never start vaping because "well, it's not cool." You get told well, look at all these people that quit smoking. That's great! But I don't see why it was necessary to trade smoking cessation among older cohorts for vaping addiction in teenagers. We have a massive public policy failure on our hands, and it's not getting better. The only thing we can say is well, at least the public health crisis won't be as bad as what we had with cigarettes. Okay. But we didn't have to have one at all. E-cig companies (many of which are actually owned by the old tobacco giants) have successfully ensnared a whole new generation of addicts.
- bobcallme 8y ago
  You are selling this FUD under the guise of "protect the children" when in reality you are restarting the issues we had with traditional cigarettes. The new regulations will pull vaping devices from stores and make it more difficult for those who do need them, thus making them go back to using cigarettes. People should be able to make their own informed choices and be able to put what they want in their bodies. Prohibition never works since it is not currently working (since all retailers are suppose to be checking IDs). This whole thing could have been avoided if parents talked with their children and school administrators did their jobs of enforcing existing policies / laws. There are much worse public health issues that need to be dealt with NOW and this is not it. Ever heard of the opioid / heroin epidemic that actually results in death and much worse health issues?
  - Amezarak 8y ago
    You are completely wrong. "Prohibition" was working. Smoking was dropping year after year, thanks to public policies like banning flavored cigarettes, packaging laws, ID laws, and taxes. Now, tons of progress has been erased because these e-cigarette brands, some of them owned by the old tobacco companies, were allowed to get around all those restrictions. The FDA completely dropped the ball and moved in way, way too late. Sale to minors wasn't even banned federally until 2016! This just puts some of them back in place so, once again, we can start working the problem down. > The new regulations will pull vaping devices from stores and make it more difficult for those who do need them, thus making them go back to using cigarettes. What proposed regulation are you claiming makes it harder for an adult to buy e-cigs? The FDA's tepid response was that flavored e-cigs must be sold in a closed-off area. That's it. Nevermind that part of the FDA's problem is that e-cigarette manufacturers were able to resist regulation by claiming in court they were not a nicotine replacement therapy, but in fact a new tobacco product for people who did not want to quit. > Ever heard of the opioid / heroin epidemic that actually results in death and much worse health issues? What happened to people making their own informed choices and putting what they want in their bodies? Besides that - obviously the existence of other problems does not prevent us from dealing with this one, now. The facts, according to the article, are that our tremendous progress in eradicating nicotine addiction has been dealt a serious setback: millions of kids are addicted, most of whom would not have been smoking cigarettes, and vapers are more likely to become future smokers.

bobcallme 8y ago

> ...at the school where I teach. You are partially responsible for this. Why is it the first response to blame everyone else but it is never the fault of those who are on the front lines (teachers, parents, people in the community)? I am stick and tired of the parents who can't F' talk to their kids ("the government needs to do more!"), school administrators who are not doing their job (last time I checked, having any tobacco / nicotine products on school grounds is quite illegal for both students and faculty : with fines and possible jail time) and the fact that there are much more dire issues in many communities that need to be addressed (maybe the opioid and Heroin epidemic?). The fact that there are much more harmful things that teens can get a hold of should be a priority over this FUD. > The media has also failed it’s obligations. Most news articles are practically advertisements for e-cigarettes, promoting them as smoking cessation tools and practically harmless compared to other tobacco products. They are not FDA approved and the evidence for their efficacy and safety is sketchy at best. The media has no obligation to you or me to do anything. E-cigarettes have helped quite a few people I know stop smoking (to the point that they don't even vape anymore). Running factually inaccurate ads like this [1] NSFW is much more harmful than any AD sponsored by big tobacco / e-cigarette companies. Lying to teens is not going to have the desired effect that you are looking for and it's going to make them want to do the opposite. As for the health effects, it is going to be just like anything else that can have undesired / dangerous substances if it comes from a questionable source. I'm sure that e-cigarettes are much better than inhaling traditional combustible cigarettes (I'm not denying that there could be health issues if use continued over X time). [1] NSFW FDA AD / The Real Cost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYuyS1Oq8gY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYuyS1Oq8gY Edit: missing word

Amezarak 8y ago
> You are partially responsible for this. Why is it the first response to blame everyone else but it is never the fault of those who are on the front lines (teachers, parents, people in the community)? The article explicitly discusses how easy it is for teenagers to vape in secret, without parents or teachers knowing. "Matt" in the article was able to keep it a secret from his parents for two years. When his parents found out, they absolutely did talk to him. But he was already an addict. > having any tobacco / nicotine products on school grounds is quite illegal for both students and faculty : with fines and possible jail time I don't know where you live, but this certainlky isn't true everywhere. Smoking generally isn't allowed in school buildings anymore (possibly there may be a few schools with old-school faculty smoking lounges, I don't know), but many or most places allow faculty to smoke outside. This of course ignores the problem with vaping anyway - it's much harder to detect. There's no smoke smell, and vapers often believe they have a right to vape anywhere and everywhere, because "it's not smoke." This is certainly true for kids in school. The article even mentions how the teenagers were avoiding being caught. What are you going to do, strip search every day? > E-cigarettes have helped quite a few people I know stop smoking That's great. That doesn't excuse their easy availability and the clear marketing toward children. That's how the media and government need to be held accountable. > there are much more dire issues in many communities that need to be addressed (maybe the opioid and Heroin epidemic?). That there are more dire issues doesn't mean we can't tackle less dire ones. The real tragedy is if the government had been on the ball, this would have never been a problem in the first place. E-cigs should have been much more heavily restricted, no flavorings allowed, etc., then people could have still quit smoking and we wouldn't have a teenage nicotine addiction epidemic. As it is, e-cigs have been sold as something basically completely safe and fun, and consequently millions of children are now addicts. Also, from the article: > “Nicotine may disrupt the formation of circuits in the brain that control attention and learning,” said Dr. Rachel Boykan, a clinical associate professor of pediatrics at Stony Brook University School of Medicine and an executive member of the American Academy of Pediatrics’ section on tobacco control. “And there is a higher risk of them subsequently becoming tobacco smokers.” E-cigarettes helped your friends stop smoking. Great! But apparently they're helping other people start.
- 8y ago

Amezarak 8y ago

I know. I've been sounding the alarm on this for years, to no avail. People do not understand what is happening amongst teenagers with vaping. There are millions more people addicted to nicotine that never would have been absent vaping. We were winning the war, thanks to sound policy moves. E-cigarettes might be an okay solution for helping smokers to quit smoking. But the easy availability and marketing has led to an absolute and total epidemic, and no one seems to care. People get incredibly defensive about this. I've been met with outright denial that it was even a possibility. Go back through my commenting history even on HN, and you'll see people telling me kids will never start vaping because "well, it's not cool." You get told well, look at all these people that quit smoking. That's great! But I don't see why it was necessary to trade smoking cessation among older cohorts for vaping addiction in teenagers. We have a massive public policy failure on our hands, and it's not getting better. The only thing we can say is well, at least the public health crisis won't be as bad as what we had with cigarettes. Okay. But we didn't have to have one at all. E-cig companies (many of which are actually owned by the old tobacco giants) have successfully ensnared a whole new generation of addicts.

bobcallme 8y ago
You are selling this FUD under the guise of "protect the children" when in reality you are restarting the issues we had with traditional cigarettes. The new regulations will pull vaping devices from stores and make it more difficult for those who do need them, thus making them go back to using cigarettes. People should be able to make their own informed choices and be able to put what they want in their bodies. Prohibition never works since it is not currently working (since all retailers are suppose to be checking IDs). This whole thing could have been avoided if parents talked with their children and school administrators did their jobs of enforcing existing policies / laws. There are much worse public health issues that need to be dealt with NOW and this is not it. Ever heard of the opioid / heroin epidemic that actually results in death and much worse health issues?
- Amezarak 8y ago
  You are completely wrong. "Prohibition" was working. Smoking was dropping year after year, thanks to public policies like banning flavored cigarettes, packaging laws, ID laws, and taxes. Now, tons of progress has been erased because these e-cigarette brands, some of them owned by the old tobacco companies, were allowed to get around all those restrictions. The FDA completely dropped the ball and moved in way, way too late. Sale to minors wasn't even banned federally until 2016! This just puts some of them back in place so, once again, we can start working the problem down. > The new regulations will pull vaping devices from stores and make it more difficult for those who do need them, thus making them go back to using cigarettes. What proposed regulation are you claiming makes it harder for an adult to buy e-cigs? The FDA's tepid response was that flavored e-cigs must be sold in a closed-off area. That's it. Nevermind that part of the FDA's problem is that e-cigarette manufacturers were able to resist regulation by claiming in court they were not a nicotine replacement therapy, but in fact a new tobacco product for people who did not want to quit. > Ever heard of the opioid / heroin epidemic that actually results in death and much worse health issues? What happened to people making their own informed choices and putting what they want in their bodies? Besides that - obviously the existence of other problems does not prevent us from dealing with this one, now. The facts, according to the article, are that our tremendous progress in eradicating nicotine addiction has been dealt a serious setback: millions of kids are addicted, most of whom would not have been smoking cigarettes, and vapers are more likely to become future smokers.