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Several times in my twenties I've found myself pretty depressed with no seeming way out. Generally I'd find myself with insomnia that I'd try to fight, thinking

Several times in my twenties I've found myself pretty depressed with no seeming way out. Generally I'd find myself with insomnia that I'd try to fight, thinking more sleep would help me break it. At one point I stopped trying to fight the insomnia, instead just trying to stay up as long as possible. I didn't have a job at the time. After a few days of practically no sleep but all conscious activity, I'd be playing video games or reading or whatever, I fell into a deep sleep for like 12-14 hours, and when I woke up, I felt refreshed like I'd never felt before, and my depression, well it was gone. I believe that, just as sleep clears out some brain cruft, not sleeping can perform an inverse service that's almost as vital. The focus on "getting enough sleep" as some kind of religious mantra is keeping us from doing that.

DenisM 8y ago
Sleep deprivation has a well-established anti-depressant effect. Sadly it does not last, the emotional state soon returns to the baseline. The temporary reprieve could push you over the edge though, if you were close to it.
- Retric 8y ago
  The risk is people are more likely to commit suicide when they are mildly depressed than severely depressed. In a deep depression you lack the motivation to commit suicide.
  - DenisM 8y ago
    That's true, but not specific to sleep deprivation - other methods of easing depression such as SSRI also increase the likelihood of self-harm. I would imagine sports can have similar effect. My pet theory is that there are several conditions that look like "depression", one of them is produced by the body to prevent self-harm resulting from acute anxiety. This theory has two important consequences: 1) Trying to ease certain kinds of depression via medication or other direct-action tools is likely to cause unintended side-effects (self-harm, anxiety, mania) that the depression was there to prevent. 2) The body will fight back against any direct intervention, trying to reinstate control over unbalanced psyche, e.g. building up tolerance to medication. A more fruitful approach would be to locate and eviscerate the underlying anxiety-inducing problem; the depression should then lift on its own accord. Like I said, it's just a pet theory, but it leads itself to validation.
- dorchadas 8y ago
  At least according to Matthew Walker, in his Why we Sleep (which I recommend to everyone), it doesn't work for everybody. Only some people get anti-depressant effect.
uh_what 8y ago
It's a well established but little known fact that sleep deprivation is an extremely effective short term treatment for depression. [1] Obviously I am not recommending that anyone try it without medical supervision, but people should at least know that it's an option. 1. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-sleep-deprivation-eases-depression/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-sleep-depriva...
- Eldt 8y ago
  I experience a sense of euphoria if I stay up late enough - I wonder how common that experience is...
  - hhh 8y ago
    From experience, I would say very. The longest I've been awake is ~5.5 days though.
    - pmarreck 8y ago
      Brain damage can start around that point... Watch out
      - andai 8y ago
        Source? I expected harm would come much earlier.
        pmarreck 8y ago
        http://sites.bu.edu/ombs/2014/03/24/new-study-shows/ http://sites.bu.edu/ombs/2014/03/24/new-study-shows/ I'm in the middle of stuff and can't google a more concise source but I recall it being about 4-5 days
        wild_preference 8y ago
        I hit that figure quite a bit back in my stimulant abuse days. But your blog post specifically refers to chronic sleep loss.
ianai 8y ago
Over the counter St. John’s wort is great for depression. It’s helped me out of some rough patches where I otherwise couldn’t go to a doctor. (It interacts with lots of meds though so do your research first)
- freedomben 8y ago
  Yeah be careful taking this if you are already taking an SSRI or SSNRI. You can cause Serotonin Syndrome, which I can tell you from experience is not fun (Mine was caused by taking too much 5-HTP, not by St John's Wort, but the latter can definitely do it too).
colechristensen 8y ago
I am entirely guessing, but maybe forcing yourself to sleep resulted in low quality sleep and forcing yourself awake led to eventual high quality sleep which sorted out the issues causing your depression.

DenisM 8y ago

Sleep deprivation has a well-established anti-depressant effect. Sadly it does not last, the emotional state soon returns to the baseline. The temporary reprieve could push you over the edge though, if you were close to it.

Retric 8y ago
The risk is people are more likely to commit suicide when they are mildly depressed than severely depressed. In a deep depression you lack the motivation to commit suicide.
- DenisM 8y ago
  That's true, but not specific to sleep deprivation - other methods of easing depression such as SSRI also increase the likelihood of self-harm. I would imagine sports can have similar effect. My pet theory is that there are several conditions that look like "depression", one of them is produced by the body to prevent self-harm resulting from acute anxiety. This theory has two important consequences: 1) Trying to ease certain kinds of depression via medication or other direct-action tools is likely to cause unintended side-effects (self-harm, anxiety, mania) that the depression was there to prevent. 2) The body will fight back against any direct intervention, trying to reinstate control over unbalanced psyche, e.g. building up tolerance to medication. A more fruitful approach would be to locate and eviscerate the underlying anxiety-inducing problem; the depression should then lift on its own accord. Like I said, it's just a pet theory, but it leads itself to validation.
dorchadas 8y ago
At least according to Matthew Walker, in his Why we Sleep (which I recommend to everyone), it doesn't work for everybody. Only some people get anti-depressant effect.

uh_what 8y ago

It's a well established but little known fact that sleep deprivation is an extremely effective short term treatment for depression. [1] Obviously I am not recommending that anyone try it without medical supervision, but people should at least know that it's an option. 1. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-sleep-deprivation-eases-depression/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-sleep-depriva...

Eldt 8y ago
I experience a sense of euphoria if I stay up late enough - I wonder how common that experience is...
- hhh 8y ago
  From experience, I would say very. The longest I've been awake is ~5.5 days though.
  - pmarreck 8y ago
    Brain damage can start around that point... Watch out
    - andai 8y ago
      Source? I expected harm would come much earlier.
      - pmarreck 8y ago
        http://sites.bu.edu/ombs/2014/03/24/new-study-shows/ http://sites.bu.edu/ombs/2014/03/24/new-study-shows/ I'm in the middle of stuff and can't google a more concise source but I recall it being about 4-5 days
        wild_preference 8y ago
        I hit that figure quite a bit back in my stimulant abuse days. But your blog post specifically refers to chronic sleep loss.

ianai 8y ago

Over the counter St. John’s wort is great for depression. It’s helped me out of some rough patches where I otherwise couldn’t go to a doctor. (It interacts with lots of meds though so do your research first)

freedomben 8y ago
Yeah be careful taking this if you are already taking an SSRI or SSNRI. You can cause Serotonin Syndrome, which I can tell you from experience is not fun (Mine was caused by taking too much 5-HTP, not by St John's Wort, but the latter can definitely do it too).

colechristensen 8y ago

I am entirely guessing, but maybe forcing yourself to sleep resulted in low quality sleep and forcing yourself awake led to eventual high quality sleep which sorted out the issues causing your depression.