5 ms·

Too bad US doesn't use them.

by xvilka 8y ago

tdcbfdct3 8y ago
The US measurements system is defined in SI units. So one pound is now defined by Planck's constant.
throwaway2048 8y ago
It does actually, US measurements are legally defined in terms of metric units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units
- piano 8y ago
  They really should cut the middle man. What surprised me reading that wiki page is that apparently the metric system was opposed in the US based on religious reasons. That is mind-boggling.
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    Is there any compelling reason why the US should switch to the metric system for daily use? Metric is already used universally in science and engineering, which seem to be the main fields in which consistency across countries matters. I completely agree that in physics, chemistry, engineering, medicine, etc., it is important to use standard units. But what harm is it doing in practice if in everyday life, Americans say things like "I weigh 180 lbs" instead of 81 kg? The argument that the metric system makes unit conversions easier (e.g., the fact that it's immediately obvious how many meters are in 20 km, but not how many feet are in 12 miles) is true, but not very compelling to me. I virtually never find myself wanting to do these conversions in a non-scientific or non-engineering context, and on the very rare occasions where I need to, I can always look them up on Google. A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Somehow people around the world get along fine using Celsius.
    - tpush 8y ago
      > A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Celsius is literally the same scale as Kelvin, just shifted so that 0c = water freezing.
      - ars 8y ago
        Celsius is a particularly bad metric unit. It doesn't have enough units in the range most commonly encountered by humans, and it goes negative, which is also to be avoided in a good unit. So you end up needing negatives, and decimals.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - umanwizard 8y ago
        Yes, and water freezing is a totally arbitrary value. Fahrenheit is scaled such that 0 is about the coldest it gets where I live, and 100 is about the hottest. (Very approximately, but close enough). That strikes me as a lot nicer in practice (since 99% of the time people are talking about temperature, it’s related to weather) than something based on the physical properties of a particular substance. Also water freezing at 0 and boiling at 100 is only valid for a specific, non-metric, air pressure.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Somehow people around the world get along fine using Celsius. You don't realize how arbitrary Fahrenheit and Celsius are until you try cooking at altitude. When I make breakfast in a particular town I frequent, it takes almost an extra minute to boil an egg.
    - macintux 8y ago
      My Jeep is a bizarre combination of metric and SAE. ISS needs to have two sets of tools[0]. NASA lost the Mars Climate Orbiter due to confusion over the units of measure[1]. Patients are given the wrong dosages[2]. It seems safe to say it's a point of ongoing friction, especially on things like international trade. [0]: https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/12391/iss-nuts-and-bolts-metric-sae-or-both https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/12391/iss-nuts-and... [1]: https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco991110.html https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco991110.html [2]: https://www.chihaklaw.com/Articles/Confusion-over-metric-measurements-leads-to-medication-errors.shtml https://www.chihaklaw.com/Articles/Confusion-over-metric-mea...
  - ars 8y ago
    > is that apparently the metric system was opposed in the US based on religious reasons. As you will discover people often use religion as an excuse for things they anyway want to do. Usually they are people who only pay lip service to their religion. Someone didn't want to use Metric. Religion doesn't actually have anything to do with it. > That is mind-boggling. It shouldn't be. I assume you are surprised that religion is involved in this, but actually it is not. If they were Atheist they would have the same objection, just using different words. Basically you need to distinguish between people being people, and people acting in a certain way because of religion. This is an example of the former.
  - jimktrains2 8y ago
    I've actually become quite fond of liquids being powers of 2 and lengths being broken fractionally. The base unit doesn't really matter (and you can always use decimal length, as is often done when building precision items). So, for liquids, 2 tablespoon = 1 ounce 2 ounce = 1 jack 2 jack = 1 gill 2 gills = 1 cup 2 cup = 1 pint 2 pint = 1 quart 2 quart = 1 pottle ( ½ gallon) 2 pottle = 1 gallon I find it much easier to switch units and do conversions in my head, especially when scaling recipes. With respect to base-2 fractional length measurements, I just find it much easier to work with fractions than than with decimals. Half of ⅛ is ¹/₁₆ with next to no thought. I don't need to do division of 25 to get 12.5. It's a personal thing, but I find it nice.
    - jbay808 8y ago
      Fractions are nice when the numerator is always 1. They're a pain when it isn't; sorting drill bits or buying material from McMaster Carr, you constantly have to sort out whether 17/64 is larger or smaller than 3/8, and by how much, and it becomes quite burdensome.
      - jimktrains2 8y ago
        It's not immediate like it would be with decimals, but ⅜ -> 6/16 -> 12/32 -> 24/64 is still something I find I can do (and track) in my head with ease. Yeah, doing it repeatedly on a task would get a little tiresome. Also, who knows where the numbered and lettered series drill bits fit in without a chart. The fractional system isn't perfect for all use cases by any means. (My understanding is that a lot of machining just deals with decimal inches directly.) I just find it convenient for many everyday tasks. I'm also weird, I guess, in that arithmetic on fractions feels easier than on decimals. Thinking more about my original statement, a lot of it has to do with halving (e.g. finding a center) being a common operation for many tasks. It also helps that most things are sold in those fractional increments too :)
  - laurentl 8y ago
    Well, you can’t suddenly replace the quarterpounder with cheese with a royale with cheese.
    - anticensor 8y ago
      You would replace quarterpounder by hectogrammer. A quarter of pound is approximately a hectogram anyway.
lb1lf 8y ago
Fun (?) anecdote - metric apparently has been used in US engineering for quite a while; a petrolhead buddy of mine was puzzled as to all the fractions used on the drawings of his (I think) Chrysler Hemi V8 from the fifties - on a hunch, we converted a few to metric. Bingo. (Just making up a number here) 3.937" stroke? Why on Earth... Ah. 100.0mm. That's why.
- ggcdn 8y ago
  Another anecdote - In structural engineering, US units are way easier to work with, and even in Canada, about 90% the buildings I work on use kips, ft, ksi, etc.
  - cesis 8y ago
    Also electronic device screen size is expressed in inches all over the world, also pipes are often inches, the same applies to nails.
    - oldandtired 8y ago
      In Australia, we use metric. On the odd occasion, you will find both imperial and metric depending on the application. Our wood sizes are metric, nuts and bolts can be either, nails metric, screws metric, tape measures generally have both imperial and metric, pipes are generally metric though you can get imperial if needed. I have been using metric since the seventies. About the only things I still use imperial for are people's height and the length of fish (for undersize/oversize determination). In regards to woodworking, I much prefer metric over imperial and the millimetre over just about all other base units. That's just my opinion.
  - jbay808 8y ago
    They aren't easier to work with for any reason other than that sizes of standard components (pipes, beams, etc) are sized conveniently in US units and have US units printed on the spec sheets. If you go overseas outside of North America, you find that the sizes of everyday objects are conveniently sized in metric, and building codes and standards and material strengths and densities are specified in SI units, and suddenly working with the metric system in those industries is easy and convenient. Do you deal with building insulation? How would you interpret a material spec of "1 BTU ft/(in^2 hr °F)"? I had to work with these units in the US and it was not at all convenient.
anonytrary 8y ago
Anyone who is doing real work in the US uses SI units. The only case where you're using "feet", "miles", "pounds", etc. is in everyday language.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  NASA and NOAA scientists and engineers still use customary units.

Too bad US doesn't use them.

by xvilka 8y ago

Too bad US doesn't use them.

tdcbfdct3 8y ago

The US measurements system is defined in SI units. So one pound is now defined by Planck's constant.

throwaway2048 8y ago

It does actually, US measurements are legally defined in terms of metric units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units

piano 8y ago
They really should cut the middle man. What surprised me reading that wiki page is that apparently the metric system was opposed in the US based on religious reasons. That is mind-boggling.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  Is there any compelling reason why the US should switch to the metric system for daily use? Metric is already used universally in science and engineering, which seem to be the main fields in which consistency across countries matters. I completely agree that in physics, chemistry, engineering, medicine, etc., it is important to use standard units. But what harm is it doing in practice if in everyday life, Americans say things like "I weigh 180 lbs" instead of 81 kg? The argument that the metric system makes unit conversions easier (e.g., the fact that it's immediately obvious how many meters are in 20 km, but not how many feet are in 12 miles) is true, but not very compelling to me. I virtually never find myself wanting to do these conversions in a non-scientific or non-engineering context, and on the very rare occasions where I need to, I can always look them up on Google. A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Somehow people around the world get along fine using Celsius.
  - tpush 8y ago
    > A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Celsius is literally the same scale as Kelvin, just shifted so that 0c = water freezing.
    - ars 8y ago
      Celsius is a particularly bad metric unit. It doesn't have enough units in the range most commonly encountered by humans, and it goes negative, which is also to be avoided in a good unit. So you end up needing negatives, and decimals.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - umanwizard 8y ago
      Yes, and water freezing is a totally arbitrary value. Fahrenheit is scaled such that 0 is about the coldest it gets where I live, and 100 is about the hottest. (Very approximately, but close enough). That strikes me as a lot nicer in practice (since 99% of the time people are talking about temperature, it’s related to weather) than something based on the physical properties of a particular substance. Also water freezing at 0 and boiling at 100 is only valid for a specific, non-metric, air pressure.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Somehow people around the world get along fine using Celsius. You don't realize how arbitrary Fahrenheit and Celsius are until you try cooking at altitude. When I make breakfast in a particular town I frequent, it takes almost an extra minute to boil an egg.
  - macintux 8y ago
    My Jeep is a bizarre combination of metric and SAE. ISS needs to have two sets of tools[0]. NASA lost the Mars Climate Orbiter due to confusion over the units of measure[1]. Patients are given the wrong dosages[2]. It seems safe to say it's a point of ongoing friction, especially on things like international trade. [0]: https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/12391/iss-nuts-and-bolts-metric-sae-or-both https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/12391/iss-nuts-and... [1]: https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco991110.html https://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco991110.html [2]: https://www.chihaklaw.com/Articles/Confusion-over-metric-measurements-leads-to-medication-errors.shtml https://www.chihaklaw.com/Articles/Confusion-over-metric-mea...
- ars 8y ago
  > is that apparently the metric system was opposed in the US based on religious reasons. As you will discover people often use religion as an excuse for things they anyway want to do. Usually they are people who only pay lip service to their religion. Someone didn't want to use Metric. Religion doesn't actually have anything to do with it. > That is mind-boggling. It shouldn't be. I assume you are surprised that religion is involved in this, but actually it is not. If they were Atheist they would have the same objection, just using different words. Basically you need to distinguish between people being people, and people acting in a certain way because of religion. This is an example of the former.
- jimktrains2 8y ago
  I've actually become quite fond of liquids being powers of 2 and lengths being broken fractionally. The base unit doesn't really matter (and you can always use decimal length, as is often done when building precision items). So, for liquids, 2 tablespoon = 1 ounce 2 ounce = 1 jack 2 jack = 1 gill 2 gills = 1 cup 2 cup = 1 pint 2 pint = 1 quart 2 quart = 1 pottle ( ½ gallon) 2 pottle = 1 gallon I find it much easier to switch units and do conversions in my head, especially when scaling recipes. With respect to base-2 fractional length measurements, I just find it much easier to work with fractions than than with decimals. Half of ⅛ is ¹/₁₆ with next to no thought. I don't need to do division of 25 to get 12.5. It's a personal thing, but I find it nice.
  - jbay808 8y ago
    Fractions are nice when the numerator is always 1. They're a pain when it isn't; sorting drill bits or buying material from McMaster Carr, you constantly have to sort out whether 17/64 is larger or smaller than 3/8, and by how much, and it becomes quite burdensome.
    - jimktrains2 8y ago
      It's not immediate like it would be with decimals, but ⅜ -> 6/16 -> 12/32 -> 24/64 is still something I find I can do (and track) in my head with ease. Yeah, doing it repeatedly on a task would get a little tiresome. Also, who knows where the numbered and lettered series drill bits fit in without a chart. The fractional system isn't perfect for all use cases by any means. (My understanding is that a lot of machining just deals with decimal inches directly.) I just find it convenient for many everyday tasks. I'm also weird, I guess, in that arithmetic on fractions feels easier than on decimals. Thinking more about my original statement, a lot of it has to do with halving (e.g. finding a center) being a common operation for many tasks. It also helps that most things are sold in those fractional increments too :)
- laurentl 8y ago
  Well, you can’t suddenly replace the quarterpounder with cheese with a royale with cheese.
  - anticensor 8y ago
    You would replace quarterpounder by hectogrammer. A quarter of pound is approximately a hectogram anyway.

lb1lf 8y ago

Fun (?) anecdote - metric apparently has been used in US engineering for quite a while; a petrolhead buddy of mine was puzzled as to all the fractions used on the drawings of his (I think) Chrysler Hemi V8 from the fifties - on a hunch, we converted a few to metric. Bingo. (Just making up a number here) 3.937" stroke? Why on Earth... Ah. 100.0mm. That's why.

ggcdn 8y ago
Another anecdote - In structural engineering, US units are way easier to work with, and even in Canada, about 90% the buildings I work on use kips, ft, ksi, etc.
- cesis 8y ago
  Also electronic device screen size is expressed in inches all over the world, also pipes are often inches, the same applies to nails.
  - oldandtired 8y ago
    In Australia, we use metric. On the odd occasion, you will find both imperial and metric depending on the application. Our wood sizes are metric, nuts and bolts can be either, nails metric, screws metric, tape measures generally have both imperial and metric, pipes are generally metric though you can get imperial if needed. I have been using metric since the seventies. About the only things I still use imperial for are people's height and the length of fish (for undersize/oversize determination). In regards to woodworking, I much prefer metric over imperial and the millimetre over just about all other base units. That's just my opinion.
- jbay808 8y ago
  They aren't easier to work with for any reason other than that sizes of standard components (pipes, beams, etc) are sized conveniently in US units and have US units printed on the spec sheets. If you go overseas outside of North America, you find that the sizes of everyday objects are conveniently sized in metric, and building codes and standards and material strengths and densities are specified in SI units, and suddenly working with the metric system in those industries is easy and convenient. Do you deal with building insulation? How would you interpret a material spec of "1 BTU ft/(in^2 hr °F)"? I had to work with these units in the US and it was not at all convenient.

anonytrary 8y ago

Anyone who is doing real work in the US uses SI units. The only case where you're using "feet", "miles", "pounds", etc. is in everyday language.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
NASA and NOAA scientists and engineers still use customary units.