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First: I'm sorry if I came of as aggressive. That wasn't my intention. > You're assuming that Zone Alarm et al wouldn't also contain sane defaults ;) I worked

by lwkl 8y ago

First: I'm sorry if I came of as aggressive. That wasn't my intention. > You're assuming that Zone Alarm et al wouldn't also contain sane defaults ;) I worked with third party firewalls and that is the case. They also are most of the time really similar to the Windows default. My point is the Windows Firewall is a really good product. It's easy to understand for a normal user since it basically asks if you trust the network when you join it. This means no technical knowledge is needed for a sane configuration. Most normal users I know are overwhelmed by the Pop-Up they get when the Windows Firewall asks them if they want to allow Internet access for a unknown application. The problem is there is no good solution to avoid the collection of telemetry data for the basic Windows user. But this is not a problem with Windows, this is a problem with most software in the year 2018. Since telemetry is everywhere and it's used more and more. If a basic Windows User is really privacy conscious they should jsut configure the settings at the first login (I think they are easy enough to understand and you can disable most of the data collection there) or get a professional help them setup their system. Edit: The following link provides information about the data collected by Windows: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/

laumars 8y ago
> My point is the Windows Firewall is a really good product. It's easy to understand for a normal user since it basically asks if you trust the network when you join it. This means no technical knowledge is needed for a sane configuration. The issue is Microsoft still send telemetry data even with those default configurations. After all, if it didn't, we wouldn't be needing this discussion in the first place because telemetry wouldn't then be a thing on Windows. Thus you're suggestion here doesn't address the question the GP has asked for. > Most normal users I know are overwhelmed by the Pop-Up they get when the Windows Firewall asks them if they want to allow Internet access for a unknown application. That is probably quite true. There's is no perfect solution. But asking a normal user to input stuff in the command line and then manually keep those lists up to date is definitely NOT easier than clicking a pop up. So your point about the difficulty of pop ups here is moot considering you've failed to provide a better alternative that does protect the user against Windows telemetry. > The problem is there is no good solution to avoid the collection of telemetry data for the basic Windows user. But this is not a problem with Windows, this is a problem with most software in the year 2018. I'd say it's totally a problem with Windows considering Microsoft haven't just ignored the problem but instead actively contributed to it. Thus now we don't just need to monitor 3rd party application to ensure they behave; we need to monitor what the OS itself is doing (and thus we cannot trust Microsoft's own default firewall rules any longer). So yes, you have a partial point that no good solution exists for novices but I think Windows does deserve a large part of the blame now given it's complicit in the problem.

by lwkl 8y ago

laumars 8y ago

> My point is the Windows Firewall is a really good product. It's easy to understand for a normal user since it basically asks if you trust the network when you join it. This means no technical knowledge is needed for a sane configuration. The issue is Microsoft still send telemetry data even with those default configurations. After all, if it didn't, we wouldn't be needing this discussion in the first place because telemetry wouldn't then be a thing on Windows. Thus you're suggestion here doesn't address the question the GP has asked for. > Most normal users I know are overwhelmed by the Pop-Up they get when the Windows Firewall asks them if they want to allow Internet access for a unknown application. That is probably quite true. There's is no perfect solution. But asking a normal user to input stuff in the command line and then manually keep those lists up to date is definitely NOT easier than clicking a pop up. So your point about the difficulty of pop ups here is moot considering you've failed to provide a better alternative that does protect the user against Windows telemetry. > The problem is there is no good solution to avoid the collection of telemetry data for the basic Windows user. But this is not a problem with Windows, this is a problem with most software in the year 2018. I'd say it's totally a problem with Windows considering Microsoft haven't just ignored the problem but instead actively contributed to it. Thus now we don't just need to monitor 3rd party application to ensure they behave; we need to monitor what the OS itself is doing (and thus we cannot trust Microsoft's own default firewall rules any longer). So yes, you have a partial point that no good solution exists for novices but I think Windows does deserve a large part of the blame now given it's complicit in the problem.