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I don't know how to word this without sounding condescending, but how did you end up on hacker news given your profession? I get the impression that the majorit

by jgust 8y ago

I don't know how to word this without sounding condescending, but how did you end up on hacker news given your profession? I get the impression that the majority demographic here is involved with software in some fashion, so seeing someone with a "blue collar" job stuck out to me. I tend to spend my free time tinkering with engines, so my thought is that you may spend your free time tinkering with software? Anyways, glad to see non-software people here to make discussions a bit less homogenous.

yourapostasy 8y ago
That perspective was really valuable to me. It confirmed what I had long suspected: lots of Japanese manufacturing somehow still embodies a craftsmanship ethos. This seems lost in the large American brands (some smaller "Made in USA" brands like Norseman for drill bits still seem to embrace this ethos). This ethos is increasingly rare in software as well, and I'm wondering if this is setting up those who have discarded the ethos for a long losing game with technical debt, or if they will be eventually vindicated as having correctly optimized for price over complexity management and quality.
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  I think both approaches probably work. The key is being honest about which kind of company you are, and keeping everyone on the same page.
BJBBB 8y ago
Sorry, but does sound a bit elitist. Coding has become a somewhat skill set among some blue-collar workers, and have seen some good stuff come from electricians, plumbers, and mechanics. I know many civil, mechanical, chemical, and electrical engineers that write good code to solve important problems. I know few programmers that know anything about circuit design, plumbing, carpentry, etc. But do believe that the programmers that frequent HN are probably more apt to be multi-skilled and a more renaissance-type of person.
- umichguy 8y ago
  I am a non-CS engineer - have a masters in Auto Systems - programming has always been part of all/most courses I took. Granted, I am probably pretty poor at things like JS and others as I never really used them, but we used a lot of things like MATLAB/ OCTAVE, Python and a few others in our coursework and work life. I have transitioned out of auto sector into consulting side (non-CS) of things, so now use a lot of data analytics and BI tools including Python, Tableau etc.
forapurpose 8y ago
How is an engine mechanic more 'blue collar' than a sysadmin or a website 'mechanic'? And a lot of coding could be (and has been) compared to assembly-line work. I think the only difference, in this respect, is that one technology has been around longer and the other is still the cool new thing. Someday, in a forum about whatever the new thing of that moment is, someone will ask the same thing about people who work in IT.
- jgust 8y ago
  I'm afraid you're in a minority if you consider a sysadmin "blue collar", not to say that will always be the case.
Baeocystin 8y ago
Not the person you asked, but I was a welder in a shipyard for years, and am a skilled mechanic. I currently work in tech. No one would ever know unless I mention it, because I don't fit the ugly stereotype of tradework being the domain of the crude and uneducated. I used to talk about it more, but I got tired of the condescension. Tech in general is incredibly insular, and nowhere near as open-minded as the field thinks it is, so I just keep quiet unless something like this thread pops up. There are a lot of us like this out there, and we tend to stay silent on the subject for similar reasons. I am happy to talk about engines or APIs. What I really don't like is the assumption that because I know about engines, anything more cerebral must be a hobby, because it would otherwise be beyond me as a profession.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Another blue collar reporting in. I did an apprenticeship in metal fabrication / welding after high school. I worked in IT briefly more recently but am back in my trade now doing fairly technical job of operating a laser cutter.
RobLach 8y ago
Programmer is the factory job of our time.

by jgust 8y ago

yourapostasy 8y ago

That perspective was really valuable to me. It confirmed what I had long suspected: lots of Japanese manufacturing somehow still embodies a craftsmanship ethos. This seems lost in the large American brands (some smaller "Made in USA" brands like Norseman for drill bits still seem to embrace this ethos). This ethos is increasingly rare in software as well, and I'm wondering if this is setting up those who have discarded the ethos for a long losing game with technical debt, or if they will be eventually vindicated as having correctly optimized for price over complexity management and quality.

erikpukinskis 8y ago
I think both approaches probably work. The key is being honest about which kind of company you are, and keeping everyone on the same page.

BJBBB 8y ago

Sorry, but does sound a bit elitist. Coding has become a somewhat skill set among some blue-collar workers, and have seen some good stuff come from electricians, plumbers, and mechanics. I know many civil, mechanical, chemical, and electrical engineers that write good code to solve important problems. I know few programmers that know anything about circuit design, plumbing, carpentry, etc. But do believe that the programmers that frequent HN are probably more apt to be multi-skilled and a more renaissance-type of person.

umichguy 8y ago
I am a non-CS engineer - have a masters in Auto Systems - programming has always been part of all/most courses I took. Granted, I am probably pretty poor at things like JS and others as I never really used them, but we used a lot of things like MATLAB/ OCTAVE, Python and a few others in our coursework and work life. I have transitioned out of auto sector into consulting side (non-CS) of things, so now use a lot of data analytics and BI tools including Python, Tableau etc.

forapurpose 8y ago

How is an engine mechanic more 'blue collar' than a sysadmin or a website 'mechanic'? And a lot of coding could be (and has been) compared to assembly-line work. I think the only difference, in this respect, is that one technology has been around longer and the other is still the cool new thing. Someday, in a forum about whatever the new thing of that moment is, someone will ask the same thing about people who work in IT.

jgust 8y ago
I'm afraid you're in a minority if you consider a sysadmin "blue collar", not to say that will always be the case.

Baeocystin 8y ago

Not the person you asked, but I was a welder in a shipyard for years, and am a skilled mechanic. I currently work in tech. No one would ever know unless I mention it, because I don't fit the ugly stereotype of tradework being the domain of the crude and uneducated. I used to talk about it more, but I got tired of the condescension. Tech in general is incredibly insular, and nowhere near as open-minded as the field thinks it is, so I just keep quiet unless something like this thread pops up. There are a lot of us like this out there, and we tend to stay silent on the subject for similar reasons. I am happy to talk about engines or APIs. What I really don't like is the assumption that because I know about engines, anything more cerebral must be a hobby, because it would otherwise be beyond me as a profession.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

Another blue collar reporting in. I did an apprenticeship in metal fabrication / welding after high school. I worked in IT briefly more recently but am back in my trade now doing fairly technical job of operating a laser cutter.

RobLach 8y ago

Programmer is the factory job of our time.