6 ms·

US homeless fundraiser: GoFundMe campaign 'based on a lie'

71 points by jfk13 8y ago

bluetidepro 8y ago
> The three face potential sentences of five to 10 years for the second-degree crimes. Does anyone know more details on the actual crimes? I didn't see it in the article. I haven't followed this story that closely as it's popped up this week more and more, but I'm confused about what part of what they did was actually illegal? Didn't just gullible people on GoFundMe fall for a fake sap story? EDIT: I guess I just missed it in the article. Makes sense: https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/
- joevandyk 8y ago
  Theft by deception. https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
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- ukyrgf 8y ago
  Since the articles cites CNN, here is what I found over there: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/us/gofundme-scam-donor-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/us/gofundme-scam-donor-trnd/i... https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/us/couple-homeless-man-gofundme/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/us/couple-homeless-man-gofund... > The couple, Kate McClure and Mark D'Amico, and the man, Johnny Bobbitt Jr., face charges of second-degree theft by deception and conspiracy to commit theft by deception, Burlington County Prosecutor Scott Coffina said Thursday.
- boomlinde 8y ago
  > Does anyone know more details on the actual crimes? I didn't see it in the article. First sentence: "The US protagonists in a viral fundraising campaign for a homeless man have been charged with theft by deception and conspiracy." > Didn't just gullible people on GoFundMe fall for a fake sap story? Yes, but there are laws that make various forms of such behavior criminal, such as fraud and criminal deception.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - eiaoa 8y ago
    >> but I'm confused about what part of what they did was actually illegal? Didn't just gullible people on GoFundMe fall for a fake sap story? > Yes, but there are laws that make various forms of such behavior criminal, such as fraud and criminal deception. It's kinda depressing that some people seem to think the law ends (or even worse, should end) at caveat emptor.
    - joecool1029 8y ago
      So I'm guessing 'theft by deception' is a great example of arbitrary law. If it were applied universally I'd expect most adtech firms would be out of business.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - mikeash 8y ago
        How is it arbitrary? Deception seems like a pretty objective measure to me. If it would put most adtech firms out of business then that’s a problem with adtech, not with the law.
Kaveren 8y ago
Makes me wonder how many of these campaigns are fraudulent. You know, in cases when you don't have someone so stupid that they bring legal action against a co-conspirator because they got screwed over while committing theft by deception. If I were a betting man I'd guess there's a small number of people running large scams on the site to net 5 or 6 figures in profit a year. Unlike donating to a charity where you have ample resources to research the organization you're donating to, you sadly can't get that donating to crowdfunding campaigns.
- ggggtez 8y ago
  I think Go Fund Me probably has less outright scams because the whole point is that you are asking for money and giving nothing in return. Compare to Kickstarter where many people try to sell ideas and products that they have no intention or ability to bring to fruition.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I think Go Fund Me probably has less outright scams because the whole point is that you are asking for money and giving nothing in return. Scams offering emotional/spiritual rewards rather than concrete material benefits are common precisely because those duped noticing and having remedy for the deception is far less likely unless someone involved gives the game up. If I ask $10,000 and offer you a car in return, you’ll notice not getting a car. If I ask $10,000 and offer to relieve the (fictional) plight of a stranger, you're a lot less likely to notice you've been played.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    I think gofundme would have more scams in that case, since they would be MUCH harder to detect since nothing is promised to 'donors' in return. On kickstarter, you at least have to pretend for a while that you're making progress, and failing to deliver anything at the end makes it even harder for you to do it all over again.
    - jfk13 8y ago
payitforward 8y ago
Kate McClure knew it was a fraud from the beginning. She texted her best friend that the backstory was a lie, and she was warned by her own mother that "people go to jail" for these sorts of things. Mark D'Amico also knew, given the tens of thousands of texts exchanged between the two. The prosecution seems sympathetic to Bobbitt, despite charging him with the same crimes. I wonder if we'll see different plea deals come out of this. He does appear to have some mitigating factors (homelessness, desperation) whereas McClure and D'Amico made overt acts to fund their gambling and shopping habits. The prosecution told the public that Bobbitt's subsequent lawsuit for the remaining funds was a total legal "miscalculation" on his part which sparked the criminal investigation. The media probably would have uncovered it too, given that the whole thing started when local reporters spotted Bobbitt panhandling again a mere four months after the $400,000 campaign ended. Bobbitt probably felt like he had no choice (other than coming clean about the scam in public). At least GoFundMe is committed to providing refunds to all the people donated.
awergergergrt 8y ago
I only donate to help and protect animals. I found myself not very sympathetic toward humans.
- jordache 8y ago
  lol
- thoughtexplorer 8y ago
  Humans are animals that have the greatest capacity for suffering.
  - blacksmith_tb 8y ago
    True, but since so much of it is self-inflicted, it's sometimes harder to want to help them (us).
awirth 8y ago
This reminds me of the Miracle Jones short story "Kickstart My Bad Life" http://www.miraclejones.com/stories/kickstart-my-bad-life.html http://www.miraclejones.com/stories/kickstart-my-bad-life.ht...
ryanmarsh 8y ago
Having been executive director for a non-profit I founded and ran for three years which had incredible media reach and trended on twitter at least once I can say: You should treat ALL charities as if they are a scam until proven otherwise. Running a charity and talking to other directors about the rampant fraud perpetrated by and even against some household names is so pervasive you wouldn't believe it. Your next question might be, why isn't it investigated or prosecuted? Simple, optics. Nobody wants the name of their foundation sullied because someone ran a celebrity golf tournament that raised millions but never sent the check.
- payitforward 8y ago
  It's getting harder to spot too. My older relative has trouble seeing the difference between the "American Firefighters Society" and the "Society of American Firefighters" (made these names up), but a bunch of them are scams just piggybacking on well-known names.
- paulryanrogers 8y ago
  Religious organizations seem to get the biggest pass around here (Midwest US). Yet these same people (myself previously included) are so skeptical of all the _other_ religious organizations/systems they're nota part of.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

71 points by jfk13 8y ago

> The three face potential sentences of five to 10 years for the second-degree crimes. Does anyone know more details on the actual crimes? I didn't see it in the article. I haven't followed this story that closely as it's popped up this week more and more, but I'm confused about what part of what they did was actually illegal? Didn't just gullible people on GoFundMe fall for a fake sap story? EDIT: I guess I just missed it in the article. Makes sense: https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/

joevandyk 8y ago
Theft by deception. https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ukyrgf 8y ago
Since the articles cites CNN, here is what I found over there: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/us/gofundme-scam-donor-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/us/gofundme-scam-donor-trnd/i... https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/us/couple-homeless-man-gofundme/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/us/couple-homeless-man-gofund... > The couple, Kate McClure and Mark D'Amico, and the man, Johnny Bobbitt Jr., face charges of second-degree theft by deception and conspiracy to commit theft by deception, Burlington County Prosecutor Scott Coffina said Thursday.
boomlinde 8y ago
> Does anyone know more details on the actual crimes? I didn't see it in the article. First sentence: "The US protagonists in a viral fundraising campaign for a homeless man have been charged with theft by deception and conspiracy." > Didn't just gullible people on GoFundMe fall for a fake sap story? Yes, but there are laws that make various forms of such behavior criminal, such as fraud and criminal deception.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- eiaoa 8y ago
  >> but I'm confused about what part of what they did was actually illegal? Didn't just gullible people on GoFundMe fall for a fake sap story? > Yes, but there are laws that make various forms of such behavior criminal, such as fraud and criminal deception. It's kinda depressing that some people seem to think the law ends (or even worse, should end) at caveat emptor.
  - joecool1029 8y ago
    So I'm guessing 'theft by deception' is a great example of arbitrary law. If it were applied universally I'd expect most adtech firms would be out of business.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikeash 8y ago
      How is it arbitrary? Deception seems like a pretty objective measure to me. If it would put most adtech firms out of business then that’s a problem with adtech, not with the law.

Kaveren 8y ago

Makes me wonder how many of these campaigns are fraudulent. You know, in cases when you don't have someone so stupid that they bring legal action against a co-conspirator because they got screwed over while committing theft by deception. If I were a betting man I'd guess there's a small number of people running large scams on the site to net 5 or 6 figures in profit a year. Unlike donating to a charity where you have ample resources to research the organization you're donating to, you sadly can't get that donating to crowdfunding campaigns.

ggggtez 8y ago
I think Go Fund Me probably has less outright scams because the whole point is that you are asking for money and giving nothing in return. Compare to Kickstarter where many people try to sell ideas and products that they have no intention or ability to bring to fruition.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I think Go Fund Me probably has less outright scams because the whole point is that you are asking for money and giving nothing in return. Scams offering emotional/spiritual rewards rather than concrete material benefits are common precisely because those duped noticing and having remedy for the deception is far less likely unless someone involved gives the game up. If I ask $10,000 and offer you a car in return, you’ll notice not getting a car. If I ask $10,000 and offer to relieve the (fictional) plight of a stranger, you're a lot less likely to notice you've been played.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  I think gofundme would have more scams in that case, since they would be MUCH harder to detect since nothing is promised to 'donors' in return. On kickstarter, you at least have to pretend for a while that you're making progress, and failing to deliver anything at the end makes it even harder for you to do it all over again.
  - jfk13 8y ago

payitforward 8y ago

Kate McClure knew it was a fraud from the beginning. She texted her best friend that the backstory was a lie, and she was warned by her own mother that "people go to jail" for these sorts of things. Mark D'Amico also knew, given the tens of thousands of texts exchanged between the two. The prosecution seems sympathetic to Bobbitt, despite charging him with the same crimes. I wonder if we'll see different plea deals come out of this. He does appear to have some mitigating factors (homelessness, desperation) whereas McClure and D'Amico made overt acts to fund their gambling and shopping habits. The prosecution told the public that Bobbitt's subsequent lawsuit for the remaining funds was a total legal "miscalculation" on his part which sparked the criminal investigation. The media probably would have uncovered it too, given that the whole thing started when local reporters spotted Bobbitt panhandling again a mere four months after the $400,000 campaign ended. Bobbitt probably felt like he had no choice (other than coming clean about the scam in public). At least GoFundMe is committed to providing refunds to all the people donated.

awergergergrt 8y ago

I only donate to help and protect animals. I found myself not very sympathetic toward humans.

jordache 8y ago
lol
thoughtexplorer 8y ago
Humans are animals that have the greatest capacity for suffering.
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  True, but since so much of it is self-inflicted, it's sometimes harder to want to help them (us).

awirth 8y ago

This reminds me of the Miracle Jones short story "Kickstart My Bad Life" http://www.miraclejones.com/stories/kickstart-my-bad-life.html http://www.miraclejones.com/stories/kickstart-my-bad-life.ht...

ryanmarsh 8y ago

Having been executive director for a non-profit I founded and ran for three years which had incredible media reach and trended on twitter at least once I can say: You should treat ALL charities as if they are a scam until proven otherwise. Running a charity and talking to other directors about the rampant fraud perpetrated by and even against some household names is so pervasive you wouldn't believe it. Your next question might be, why isn't it investigated or prosecuted? Simple, optics. Nobody wants the name of their foundation sullied because someone ran a celebrity golf tournament that raised millions but never sent the check.

payitforward 8y ago
It's getting harder to spot too. My older relative has trouble seeing the difference between the "American Firefighters Society" and the "Society of American Firefighters" (made these names up), but a bunch of them are scams just piggybacking on well-known names.
paulryanrogers 8y ago
Religious organizations seem to get the biggest pass around here (Midwest US). Yet these same people (myself previously included) are so skeptical of all the _other_ religious organizations/systems they're nota part of.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]