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Lots of factual errors here. Solar and wind can make very large impacts on electricity generation - see the Desertec website for lots more information: http://
by chrisb 16y ago
Lots of factual errors here.
Solar and wind can make very large impacts on electricity generation - see the Desertec website for lots more information: http://www.desertec.org/ http://www.desertec.org/
Research has shown that geographically distributed renewable generation can be used as reliable base-load, although I can't find the reference at the moment.
The CO2 payback times for various technologies are shown here: http://www.envirowiki.info/CO2_payback http://www.envirowiki.info/CO2_payback , although this does miss out other payback times that are relevant.
Winds and pressure regions around the world are primarily caused by temperature contrasts between the poles and the equator, and between land and sea (due to water having a much larger thermal inertia than land). Huge numbers of wind turbines will not effect this in any way.
Modern wind turbines kill very few birds, orders of magnitude less than cars and window collisions (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php). Older wind tubines have faster rotational speeds which kill more birds than modern turbines.
Bats, again, are not effected too much by modern wind turbines as the blades are are sufficiently high above the ground that bats will never come into contact with them, as bats rarely fly at high altitudes (see PDF linked from http://naturalengland.etraderstores.com/NaturalEnglandShop/TIN051 http://naturalengland.etraderstores.com/NaturalEnglandShop/T...).
Please, don't rant unless you know the facts.
- drothlis 16y agoDo windmills kill “huge numbers” of birds? Wind farms recently got adverse publicity from Norway, where the wind turbines on Smola, a set of islands off the north-west coast, killed 9 white-tailed eagles in 10 months. I share the concern of BirdLife International for the welfare of rare birds. But I think, as always, it’s important to do the numbers. It’s been estimated that 30 000 birds per year are killed by wind turbines in Denmark, where windmills generate 9% of the electricity. Horror! Ban windmills! We also learn, moreover, that traffic kills one million birds per year in Denmark. Thirty-times-greater horror! Thirty-times-greater incentive to ban cars! And in Britain, 55 million birds per year are killed by cats. --David MacKay, "Sustainable Energy -- without the hot air". http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c10/page_63.shtml http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c10/page_63...
- brc 16y agoSo what you're saying is that it's OK to kill birds as long as you're 'saving the planet'? Because that's how it reads to me. I'm shocked that environmentalists support wind power with the large ecological footprint it has. Plus you have to build baseload power to back it up, so it's not like you are stopping the construction of fossil fuel plants. It just seems like a gigantic waste of resources to me.
- drothlis 16y agoThat's a rather provocative interpretation of what I posted. I was merely pointing out that the birds thing is a relatively small issue, and if you really care that much about them you'll have to sacrifice much of the modern lifestyle. For what it's worth, the book I quoted from (link in my previous comment) is (in my interpretation) fairly skeptical of wind power. I highly recommend it: It looks at the issues in a balanced manner, with extensive figures and calculations, and without resorting to sensationalist language like "it's OK to kill birds", or putting sarcastic quotes around "saving the planet" to imply naïvety of anyone who dares to disagree.
- philwelch 16y agoNo, he's saying that, on a cost-benefit basis, killing a few extra birds to generate electricity is probably no worse a tradeoff than killing tons of extra birds in exchange for the privilege of owning housecats.