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It seems like every dozen threads or so in the last year have at least one thread with bizarrely cantankerous / dismissive replies, with a few lonely voices say

It seems like every dozen threads or so in the last year have at least one thread with bizarrely cantankerous / dismissive replies, with a few lonely voices saying when did you all get so unhappy? Tulsa's initiative here is really, really good. It doesn't matter if you want to live in Tulsa, specifically (fine! don't move!), and it doesn't matter if the incentive is high enough to make it Worth It to You Personally. What matters is that somebody has figured out that the dynamics of the Amazon HQ2 bidding war (roundly critiqued elsewhere, but I'll leave that for another thread) apply to individual remote workers as well --- in other words, potentially to basically everyone reading HN. Quit whining, and start celebrating. Get this in front of your own city. Show them that there's an opportunity. It has never been a better time to be in software.

webkike 8y ago
I’m not sure about everyone else, but I can point to a very specific date as to when we all became unhappy
- colordrops 8y ago
  Please enlighten us as to what happened.
- inerte 8y ago
  Ok I will bite. When?
- obiefernandez 8y ago
  November of last year.
  - rednerrus 8y ago
    Y'all were pretty miserable before that.
  - alaithea 8y ago
    Hate to break it to you, but it's been twice that long. ;)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- TwentyTwenty4 8y ago
  Guess you'll be unhappy til 2024, bucko. Sad little libturd children :(
- chrissnell 8y ago
  Being angry, stressed, pissed, or sad about Trump does not serve you. It won't improve anything, it won't make your wealthier or give you more time with friends and family, or make you popular. It will only serve to give you heartburn, distract you from your job and your relationships and friendships. I think you would be doing yourself a huge favor to block social media and news sites on your browser and focus on what you can improve in your own life and in your neighborhood.
  - komali2 8y ago
    ... The United States is a democracy, and the Constitution was framed with the expectation that citizens have the right and even the duty to be both locally and federally involved. If someone's mental health is at risk, I'm right there with you - throw out Twitter and see a doctor. But being angry at the federal government is just about as American as a cheeseburger, and it's not useless. Demonstrations work, anger works. If for no other reason than so kids 20 years from now don't ask "and everyone was just ok with that?" I appreciate you're trying to help people but I disagree with your prescription. It whiffs of "your actions don't matter, peasant."
fipple 8y ago
LOL... imagining an auction market for incentives to remote workers, where basically the prices get bid up to almost the entire economic contribution of the worker over the time that they live in the city. Like the Japanese hometown tax.
ganeshkrishnan 8y ago
This is absolutely amazing concept and is a step forward in the right direction. I wish more "non-popular" cities did this. Whether they succeed or not, it's impressive they came up with this rather than throwing tax cuts to corporations.
itomato 8y ago
Tulsa, like the rest of Oklahoma has serious problems that have been the genesis of this incredible incentive. No silver lining in Tulsa.
chrissnell 8y ago
I couldn't read more than halfway through the comments before coming back to yours. It's such a shame. Kaiser's effort is quite impressive. Tulsa realizes that the best way to bust all of the stereotypes is to bring people in that will be that change. This will probably turn out well for them. I think that targeting remote workers instead of startups is a much smarter approach. We already have the incomes and once we've put down roots, we're likely to remain. Bring enough remote tech workers in and the startups will naturally follow.
- lj3 8y ago
  It could go either way, depending on who they end up attracting. Attracting people who appreciate the culture of Tulsa and want to fit in rather than force Tulsa to change to accommodate them would be a good thing for Tulsa. Attracting people who otherwise dislike Tulsa and want to change it is a recipe for disaster. People don't react well to outsiders coming to their home and telling them how they should live. Just ask all of the states receiving large numbers of California refugees.
shaki-dora 8y ago
I actually liked the idea.. until you made the HQ2 comparison. Now I'm trying to find a reason why subsidising young, educated, upper-middle class professionals is morally defensible, considering there are still millions of children in the US alone growing up in poverty and chronic food insecurity. I understand the cash flow may end up net positive for Tulsa when/if people end up staying. But that's not guaranteed. In fact, this is a self-selected group of people defined by exactly their willingness to move when there are opportunities elsewhere. And there's the risk that it just sets of a competitive race-to-the-bottom. I guess we'd all like our taxes to be cut in half. But US tax rates are already extremely low. The sort of targeted tax break for a very specific slice of the population also feels...icky? It's no longer progressive taxation with everyone contributing according to their means. It's "I'm young, single, and work with buzzwords. Therefore I don't pay taxes." (10 years later: "I have children and my wife is sick. They know I can't leave and my tax rate quintupled". Edit: just noticed it's privately financed, undercutting the meat of my complaints. But only until some other city uses public money to keep up.
avip 8y ago
There’s some report bias involved. People tend to share disagreement. But I agree, the original positivity-first tone of this forum is decaying fast. I’ve noticed downvoting to express disagreement also becomes prevalent. It really takes a massive effort, and probably godly miracle, to maintain a community focused on positive energies.
arandr0x 8y ago
You're exactly right, although cities have to an extent always tried to entice people to move there. It's just back in the day there were fewer self-employed people. As a city dweller though, I think my city(not Tulsa, no worries) doesn't need more single 20-something Internet-or-other remote working desk jockeys. My city needs mothers with young children to use its parks and waiters to staff its restaurants. Also artists to give people better things to do with their leisure time than "hang out at bars". Initiatives like this essentially show our cities have stopped being about local culture, community, and people from different origins choosing to share a way of life and are now just places where people who live in the Internet can look for sex partners and pizza delivery. It's incredibly sad.

webkike 8y ago

I’m not sure about everyone else, but I can point to a very specific date as to when we all became unhappy

colordrops 8y ago
Please enlighten us as to what happened.
inerte 8y ago
Ok I will bite. When?
obiefernandez 8y ago
November of last year.
- rednerrus 8y ago
  Y'all were pretty miserable before that.
- alaithea 8y ago
  Hate to break it to you, but it's been twice that long. ;)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
TwentyTwenty4 8y ago
Guess you'll be unhappy til 2024, bucko. Sad little libturd children :(
chrissnell 8y ago
Being angry, stressed, pissed, or sad about Trump does not serve you. It won't improve anything, it won't make your wealthier or give you more time with friends and family, or make you popular. It will only serve to give you heartburn, distract you from your job and your relationships and friendships. I think you would be doing yourself a huge favor to block social media and news sites on your browser and focus on what you can improve in your own life and in your neighborhood.
- komali2 8y ago
  ... The United States is a democracy, and the Constitution was framed with the expectation that citizens have the right and even the duty to be both locally and federally involved. If someone's mental health is at risk, I'm right there with you - throw out Twitter and see a doctor. But being angry at the federal government is just about as American as a cheeseburger, and it's not useless. Demonstrations work, anger works. If for no other reason than so kids 20 years from now don't ask "and everyone was just ok with that?" I appreciate you're trying to help people but I disagree with your prescription. It whiffs of "your actions don't matter, peasant."

fipple 8y ago

LOL... imagining an auction market for incentives to remote workers, where basically the prices get bid up to almost the entire economic contribution of the worker over the time that they live in the city. Like the Japanese hometown tax.

ganeshkrishnan 8y ago

This is absolutely amazing concept and is a step forward in the right direction. I wish more "non-popular" cities did this. Whether they succeed or not, it's impressive they came up with this rather than throwing tax cuts to corporations.

itomato 8y ago

Tulsa, like the rest of Oklahoma has serious problems that have been the genesis of this incredible incentive. No silver lining in Tulsa.

chrissnell 8y ago

I couldn't read more than halfway through the comments before coming back to yours. It's such a shame. Kaiser's effort is quite impressive. Tulsa realizes that the best way to bust all of the stereotypes is to bring people in that will be that change. This will probably turn out well for them. I think that targeting remote workers instead of startups is a much smarter approach. We already have the incomes and once we've put down roots, we're likely to remain. Bring enough remote tech workers in and the startups will naturally follow.

lj3 8y ago
It could go either way, depending on who they end up attracting. Attracting people who appreciate the culture of Tulsa and want to fit in rather than force Tulsa to change to accommodate them would be a good thing for Tulsa. Attracting people who otherwise dislike Tulsa and want to change it is a recipe for disaster. People don't react well to outsiders coming to their home and telling them how they should live. Just ask all of the states receiving large numbers of California refugees.

shaki-dora 8y ago

I actually liked the idea.. until you made the HQ2 comparison. Now I'm trying to find a reason why subsidising young, educated, upper-middle class professionals is morally defensible, considering there are still millions of children in the US alone growing up in poverty and chronic food insecurity. I understand the cash flow may end up net positive for Tulsa when/if people end up staying. But that's not guaranteed. In fact, this is a self-selected group of people defined by exactly their willingness to move when there are opportunities elsewhere. And there's the risk that it just sets of a competitive race-to-the-bottom. I guess we'd all like our taxes to be cut in half. But US tax rates are already extremely low. The sort of targeted tax break for a very specific slice of the population also feels...icky? It's no longer progressive taxation with everyone contributing according to their means. It's "I'm young, single, and work with buzzwords. Therefore I don't pay taxes." (10 years later: "I have children and my wife is sick. They know I can't leave and my tax rate quintupled". Edit: just noticed it's privately financed, undercutting the meat of my complaints. But only until some other city uses public money to keep up.

avip 8y ago

There’s some report bias involved. People tend to share disagreement. But I agree, the original positivity-first tone of this forum is decaying fast. I’ve noticed downvoting to express disagreement also becomes prevalent. It really takes a massive effort, and probably godly miracle, to maintain a community focused on positive energies.

arandr0x 8y ago

You're exactly right, although cities have to an extent always tried to entice people to move there. It's just back in the day there were fewer self-employed people. As a city dweller though, I think my city(not Tulsa, no worries) doesn't need more single 20-something Internet-or-other remote working desk jockeys. My city needs mothers with young children to use its parks and waiters to staff its restaurants. Also artists to give people better things to do with their leisure time than "hang out at bars". Initiatives like this essentially show our cities have stopped being about local culture, community, and people from different origins choosing to share a way of life and are now just places where people who live in the Internet can look for sex partners and pizza delivery. It's incredibly sad.