4 ms·

That's a classic case of survivorship bias.

umvi 8y ago
Only because the dead can't express measurable regret (i.e. even if there is an afterlife, they can't establish communication with the living to convey their regret)
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  That cuts both ways. They also can't tell you if they are thrilled, they feel they did the right thing and wish they had done it sooner.
  - umvi 8y ago
    Well then the supposed survivorship bias would cut both ways too then? Why should we assume people with failed suicide attempts should have regret at a higher rate than those with successful attempts?
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      I commented on this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18466273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18466273 It's probably not politically correct or socially acceptable for people to run around saying too much "I wish I had succeeded because my life still sucks." It's also basically counterproductive. I often wish I had simply not been born or had died years ago when I was in the midst of a serious medical crisis or would just "wake up dead." Going to sleep and "waking up dead" has been a common fantasy of mine since at least my teens. I just don't run around harping on that constantly. It would be nothing but trouble for me and is potentially a good way to inadvertently encourage others to finally off themselves. I consider that irresponsible, so I generally don't publicly say things like "I don't understand why more people with my medical condition don't kill themselves." Other people with my medical condition don't need to run across that opinion on the internet every time they turn around, so I mostly keep such thoughts to myself or share them only with my adult sons. I have a Dread Disease. What it does to your life is horrible. There is no real hope of a cure. I am slowly getting better by pursuing "alternative" stuff (diet and lifestyle, mostly) and I get constantly attacked and dismissed for talking about that. Being constantly attacked and dismissed instead of getting the support I need to succeed makes me suicidal. But the fact that I am slowly getting better means my life is vastly better than it is supposed to be and I know what it is supposed to look like and if I genuinely believed in my heart of hearts that what doctors told me was all I could expect -- that people like me don't get well and I can look forward to a long, slow and torturous decline ultimately resulting in death -- then I likely would have killed myself. And other people with CF don't really need to run into my thoughts on that when it means essentially that I am left-handedly saying "Why don't you just go kill yourself already?" (or could be interpreted as such -- that's certainly not my actual intent) It's not my business to decide how much they should be willing to endure. It's not my business to decide how much they should value life and try to survive in the face of that. I would consider it irresponsible behavior for me to constantly harp on that. So I don't. But it doesn't mean that I don't think such things. So I can well imagine that a lot of people who wish they were dead just aren't sharing that information constantly because they aren't assholes. Which is a very long way of saying "We don't actually know, so please stop trying to claim that we can infer X when we really can't."
      - umvi 8y ago
        Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. Glad to hear you are getting better.

umvi 8y ago

Only because the dead can't express measurable regret (i.e. even if there is an afterlife, they can't establish communication with the living to convey their regret)

DoreenMichele 8y ago
That cuts both ways. They also can't tell you if they are thrilled, they feel they did the right thing and wish they had done it sooner.
- umvi 8y ago
  Well then the supposed survivorship bias would cut both ways too then? Why should we assume people with failed suicide attempts should have regret at a higher rate than those with successful attempts?
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I commented on this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18466273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18466273 It's probably not politically correct or socially acceptable for people to run around saying too much "I wish I had succeeded because my life still sucks." It's also basically counterproductive. I often wish I had simply not been born or had died years ago when I was in the midst of a serious medical crisis or would just "wake up dead." Going to sleep and "waking up dead" has been a common fantasy of mine since at least my teens. I just don't run around harping on that constantly. It would be nothing but trouble for me and is potentially a good way to inadvertently encourage others to finally off themselves. I consider that irresponsible, so I generally don't publicly say things like "I don't understand why more people with my medical condition don't kill themselves." Other people with my medical condition don't need to run across that opinion on the internet every time they turn around, so I mostly keep such thoughts to myself or share them only with my adult sons. I have a Dread Disease. What it does to your life is horrible. There is no real hope of a cure. I am slowly getting better by pursuing "alternative" stuff (diet and lifestyle, mostly) and I get constantly attacked and dismissed for talking about that. Being constantly attacked and dismissed instead of getting the support I need to succeed makes me suicidal. But the fact that I am slowly getting better means my life is vastly better than it is supposed to be and I know what it is supposed to look like and if I genuinely believed in my heart of hearts that what doctors told me was all I could expect -- that people like me don't get well and I can look forward to a long, slow and torturous decline ultimately resulting in death -- then I likely would have killed myself. And other people with CF don't really need to run into my thoughts on that when it means essentially that I am left-handedly saying "Why don't you just go kill yourself already?" (or could be interpreted as such -- that's certainly not my actual intent) It's not my business to decide how much they should be willing to endure. It's not my business to decide how much they should value life and try to survive in the face of that. I would consider it irresponsible behavior for me to constantly harp on that. So I don't. But it doesn't mean that I don't think such things. So I can well imagine that a lot of people who wish they were dead just aren't sharing that information constantly because they aren't assholes. Which is a very long way of saying "We don't actually know, so please stop trying to claim that we can infer X when we really can't."
    - umvi 8y ago
      Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. Glad to hear you are getting better.