4 ms·

Without any opinion the merits of this case in particular, which seems like a total mess all around and I haven't been following, on the topic more generally I

by xoa 8y ago

Without any opinion the merits of this case in particular, which seems like a total mess all around and I haven't been following, on the topic more generally I found "Demystifying International Extradition" [1] last year to be an interesting summary of the process. It introduced me to concepts that don't really tend to come up in local law. Amongst other pertinent aspects is that while the US generally wants to avoid binding its own hands it can do so if another nation demands it when it comes to the penalties it will seek. Lots of countries (I think including England?) will not extradite if the death penalty is on the table, but the US can apparently legally assure that it won't seek it (for capital crimes). Lot of political considerations and such in high profile cases I guess when it comes to agreements between nation-states. Everyone can be prickly about their prerogatives and who gets justice and what it means for relations and public opinion and so on. Nothing guaranteed about it. ---- 1: https://www.arnoldporter.com/en/perspectives/publications/2017/01/demystifying-international-extradition https://www.arnoldporter.com/en/perspectives/publications/20...

braythwayt 8y ago
This has come up between the US and Canada. When the US seeks extradition for a capital crime, Canada nearly always asks for assurances that the US will not seek the death penalty.
monocasa 8y ago
There's also just straight up extraordinary rendition, ie. showing up, black bagging someone, and flying off, outside the legal process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition Ironically, the UK doesn't allow extraordinary rendition, and it was a big deal to even let those planes refuel or use UK airspace, but Sweden historically has allowed it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
- jacobush 8y ago
  It was made a big deal in Sweden how ridiculous any fears were that Assange could be extradited from Sweden to the US if he would go to Sweden for hearings. And now...
  - rtpg 8y ago
    it's still "ridiculous" insofar as an extradition from Sweden would not just involve Sweden <-> US relations but US <-> UK relations (so two relations instead of just one). This isn't rocket science, there are more moving parts to the "get him from Sweden" from the simpler "Get him from the UK" plan.
    - jacobush 8y ago
      Regarding how the debate went in Sweden, it was raised that Assange could be snatched up en route from UK to Sweden. This notion was dismissed even more summarily, like some spy movie fantasy. (This would not happen unless the UK would be OK with it, of course. The UK, unless they have some exceptional reason, does exactly what the US says. If the law has wiggle room, they'll look the other way. I am sure also something could be arranged so Sweden and the UK could save face for each other in their relationship. Even if the US black bagged someone, as long as they didn't do it on UK soil, why should the brits just not shrug and say "ah, those naughty Americans, can't keep up with them all the time eh?" wink, wink, nudge nudge) Edit: Regarding the charges themselves against Assange - I have no doubt Assange is a bit of a douche. I would not be surprised at all if he violated Swedish law. It's still quite suspicious that even though most similar investigations are closed, even with better evidence, this case was opened anew, by Marianne Ny. Of course the handling of this case was political.
    - makomk 8y ago
      An extradition from Sweden would involve both Sweden and the UK government, which is likely to co-operate. Extraditing him from the UK would involve both the government and the courts, which are a less certain thing. I mean, it's still a bit of a conspiracy theory, but it could've made the US's life easier.
justincormack 8y ago
Insisting on no death penalty is required by all countries that have banned the death penalty on human rights grounds, not just the UK but all of Europe and much of the world.
rem7 8y ago
Mexico is the same way, they won’t extradite if the country is seeking for the death penalty. I wonder if there was a negotiation around that with El Chapo
- tyingq 8y ago
  There was. He is not facing the death penalty. Solitary confinement in a Supermax facility for life is arguably worse though. 23 hours a day alone in a room with no windows for the rest of your life.

by xoa 8y ago

braythwayt 8y ago

This has come up between the US and Canada. When the US seeks extradition for a capital crime, Canada nearly always asks for assurances that the US will not seek the death penalty.

monocasa 8y ago

There's also just straight up extraordinary rendition, ie. showing up, black bagging someone, and flying off, outside the legal process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition Ironically, the UK doesn't allow extraordinary rendition, and it was a big deal to even let those planes refuel or use UK airspace, but Sweden historically has allowed it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...

jacobush 8y ago
It was made a big deal in Sweden how ridiculous any fears were that Assange could be extradited from Sweden to the US if he would go to Sweden for hearings. And now...
- rtpg 8y ago
  it's still "ridiculous" insofar as an extradition from Sweden would not just involve Sweden <-> US relations but US <-> UK relations (so two relations instead of just one). This isn't rocket science, there are more moving parts to the "get him from Sweden" from the simpler "Get him from the UK" plan.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    Regarding how the debate went in Sweden, it was raised that Assange could be snatched up en route from UK to Sweden. This notion was dismissed even more summarily, like some spy movie fantasy. (This would not happen unless the UK would be OK with it, of course. The UK, unless they have some exceptional reason, does exactly what the US says. If the law has wiggle room, they'll look the other way. I am sure also something could be arranged so Sweden and the UK could save face for each other in their relationship. Even if the US black bagged someone, as long as they didn't do it on UK soil, why should the brits just not shrug and say "ah, those naughty Americans, can't keep up with them all the time eh?" wink, wink, nudge nudge) Edit: Regarding the charges themselves against Assange - I have no doubt Assange is a bit of a douche. I would not be surprised at all if he violated Swedish law. It's still quite suspicious that even though most similar investigations are closed, even with better evidence, this case was opened anew, by Marianne Ny. Of course the handling of this case was political.
  - makomk 8y ago
    An extradition from Sweden would involve both Sweden and the UK government, which is likely to co-operate. Extraditing him from the UK would involve both the government and the courts, which are a less certain thing. I mean, it's still a bit of a conspiracy theory, but it could've made the US's life easier.

justincormack 8y ago

Insisting on no death penalty is required by all countries that have banned the death penalty on human rights grounds, not just the UK but all of Europe and much of the world.

rem7 8y ago

Mexico is the same way, they won’t extradite if the country is seeking for the death penalty. I wonder if there was a negotiation around that with El Chapo

tyingq 8y ago
There was. He is not facing the death penalty. Solitary confinement in a Supermax facility for life is arguably worse though. 23 hours a day alone in a room with no windows for the rest of your life.