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> “The public we were serving, in a broad sense, said, ‘We’re organic, we’re healthy, we’re vegan, we’re whole-grain,’ and then we’d roll out these whole-grain
by bootsz 8y ago
> “The public we were serving, in a broad sense, said, ‘We’re organic, we’re healthy, we’re vegan, we’re whole-grain,’ and then we’d roll out these whole-grain breads. … Everyone would say, ‘Woohoo!’ and then they’d show up and say, ‘I’ll take the baguette. I’ll take the ciabatta.’”
I think part of the problem is that after 100+ years of increasingly industrialized bread, most people today have rarely if ever encountered "real" bread (including bread that is actually 100% whole-grain). I can't find a citation at the moment, but I've heard from multiple sources that in the US, commercial bread only needs to contain 51% whole wheat to be able to be marketed as "whole wheat". So in reality when you see "100% Whole Wheat" on the shelf, most times it's really more like a blend of white and whole wheat (plus a whole bunch of other preservatives and other junk). If you actually bake a loaf at home with only whole-wheat flour you will get something that is much darker and denser.
There has been a similar phenomenon with "rye" bread in the US. Most bread labeled "rye" that you see on store shelves here is a variant of a deli-style bread originating in NYC. It is mostly white wheat flour with a little bit of rye flour and caraway seed added. The flavor people associate with "rye" bread is really just the flavor of caraway seed. In contrast, true whole-grain rye bread is a very dense old-world style bread that you almost never see anymore except for maybe in very niche artisan bakeries. Example: https://i.redd.it/bhwihp6j7dr01.jpg https://i.redd.it/bhwihp6j7dr01.jpg
- peterwwillis 8y agoWe had "real" bread for millennia. We didn't forget about it, we actively chose something new. Humans absolutely love refined, glutiney, sweet, white flour. It's like the wheat equivalent of candy. We also love soda. It's not like we forgot about tea, people just like soda more. By the way, have you made bread with just wheat flour? It won't rise. I have to add a bunch more water too to give the dough the right consistency. Anything more than 50% wheat flour and in the oven it's just not going to get big. You could probably add vital wheat gluten, but if you have to use more than flour, salt, yeast and water, it isn't "bread" to me anymore, it's a "baked good".
- bootsz 8y agoI'm not really making a case here one way or another about what people should eat, just trying to explain the gap observed between what people think they are buying and what they are actually getting. I don't think we should call things "100% whole wheat" when it is far from that. We're just deluding people at that point. If people prefer factory "bread" that's fine but they should at least know what it actually is. > By the way, have you made bread with just wheat flour? Yes, regularly. It is more difficult to obtain a good rise and pleasant texture but it is 100% doable with proper techniques. It takes a lot of time and effort. To each his own though.
- rwcarlsen 8y agoWe (my family) grind our own wheat and make real 100% wheat bread all the time. We get it to rise and be fluffy just fine FWIW. And I don't like soda or white bread nearly as much as water and wheat. Sure maybe I'm not typical, but I don't think we can attribute our culture's like of soda to more than, well, culture.
- bootsz 8y agoWhat do you use for a grinder? I’ve been itching to get into milling my own flour for a while. I hear it takes the bread to a whole new level.
- rwcarlsen 8y agoUsually this: https://nutrimill.com/product/nutrimill-classic-grain-mill/ https://nutrimill.com/product/nutrimill-classic-grain-mill/ . But occasionally this when I want a workout: https://store.countrylivinggrainmills.com/grain-mill/ https://store.countrylivinggrainmills.com/grain-mill/
- agsdfgsd 8y ago>By the way, have you made bread with just wheat flour? Several times a week, every week. >It won't rise. Yes it will. >Anything more than 50% wheat flour and in the oven it's just not going to get big Use a whole wheat bread recipe, don't use a white bread recipe and just swap in whole wheat flour. >but if you have to use more than flour, salt, yeast and water, it isn't "bread" to me anymore Almost all bread has more than that. Sweetener and fat are both normal.
- rb808 8y agoOur regular Supermarket has racks and racks of different kinds of bread and they're all horrible fluff. Its great when you find "normal" bread, but you have to make the effort to go to the niche places.
- bootsz 8y agoOr make your own :) It's time-consuming but quite therapeutic
- nnutter 8y agoIt's not even time consuming if you get a bread machine and, if you care to, a slicer.
- bootsz 8y agoAre there mechanical slicers out there that are affordable for home use? Last I looked the cheapest I could find was like $1,500 USD.
- dependsontheq 8y agoUse a good very sharp kitchen knife for 100$ don’t use a bread knife. Perfect slices no work.
- anoncake 8y agoFor a device like this[1] or this[2]? [1]https://www.lidl.de/media/product/0/0/8/6/2/9/1/wenko-brotschneidemaschine-mit-handkurbel-zoom--130.jpg https://www.lidl.de/media/product/0/0/8/6/2/9/1/wenko-brotsc... [2]http://www.umwaagen.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/BS_38.jpg http://www.umwaagen.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/BS_38.jpg
- justin66 8y ago> So in reality when you see "100% Whole Wheat" on the shelf, most times it's really more like a blend of white and whole wheat (plus a whole bunch of other preservatives and other junk). If you see the "100%" it will use all whole wheat flour. Simply stating "whole wheat" could mean different things. There are multiple efforts to improve the labeling surrounding all this. Here's one: https://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/identifying-whole-grain-products https://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/identifying-...
- snaky 8y ago> Even Walmart’s “Great Value 100% Whole Wheat Bread” contains seven ingredients that Whole Foods considers “unacceptable”: high fructose corn syrup, sodium stearoyl lactylate, ethoxylated diglycerides, DATEM, azodicarbonamide, ammonium chloride, and calcium propionate. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/whole_foods_and_walmart_how_many_groceries_sold_at_walmart_would_be_banned.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/whole_...
- TTPrograms 8y agoTo be clear, white bread is thousands if not tens of thousands of years old. I don't see how the 300 year old baguette could be considered "not real".
- bootsz 8y agoI wasn’t trying to imply they weren’t, but I see how the wording of my comment could make it seem that way. I was commenting on the perception of “whole grain” based on supermarket brands marketed as such. Traditional baguettes are by far better than anything made in a factory.
- Technetium_Hat 8y agoThat kind of dense rye bread was also available at ALDI. Haven't been there in several years as they only operate in the Eastern United States.