5 ms·

Do you think that Munich has generally better culture in this industry? I don't even mean startups, just asking in general.

bitL 8y ago
Munich is generally not as open to foreigners as Berlin. Even more foreigners are in Frankfurt, but most hate living there, despite getting a funding is much easier than in Berlin/Munich - it's fun to see ICOs popping up there 1 year after they were relevant, so if you follow US trends, you can apply them without much effort over there a year later and be celebrated for copying some already well-known idea.
- StreamBright 8y ago
  I disagree. The companies in my network (anecdotal evidence) are full with international people. In our office we have nationals from 13 countries. This is the most diverse environment that I have ever seen (including San Francisco). There are some companies however who are hiring strictly Germans, just like with anything else the market will correct these mistakes. This is not the norm but the exception though. I am not sure what you are talking about when saying it is not as open. Renting an apartment is the most difficult part of moving to Munich. It is really bad. There are scammers, people do not want to deal with you if you don't speak German, etc, but this the downside. Getting registered, sorting out bank accounts, internet, mobile phone, socialising and any other aspect of being an ex-pat in Munich is average. The housing situation is the the result of supply and demand imbalance. I have had similar experience in San Francisco when people do not even reply to my email when I was using my Central European name but they were more than happy to reply to Steve. There are several options to mitigate that, you can just move to a smaller town around Munich the train connection is pretty good. Were you referring to the housing situation?
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > The companies in my network (anecdotal evidence) are full with international people. In our office we have nationals from 13 countries. This is the most diverse environment that I have ever seen (including San Francisco) I'll probably get downvoted for saying this, but it's important enough that I need to: country of origin is a completely meaningless way to measure diversity. Especially in Europe, where most countries are comparable to the size of individual states in the US and are relatively racially homogeneous, national origin doesn't measure anything meaningful. The problem with Munich is that, like Bavaria as a whole[0], it is incredibly racist. Specifically, if you look Muslim, Arab, or Middle Eastern, you're in for a really rough time. This shouldn't be too surprising if you look at recent trends in German politics, and specifically in Bavarian politics. I wouldn't hold Berlin up as a gold standard here by any means, but it's far better than either Frankfurt or Munich in this regard. [0] less so than the rest of Bavaria, but more so than any other comparable city in Germany
    - poulsbohemian 8y ago
      >Especially in Europe, where most countries are comparable to the size of individual states in the US I understand what you are saying, but having travelled around the US, mostly for business but some for pleasure, there are remarkable and under-appreciated differences among the states. I would go so far as to say that my state, Washington, and its neighboring Canadian province of British Columbia, have more in common culturally, socially, and economically than say, Washington state and Florida. Within Germany itself, which is approximately the size of Oregon, I found that there are also significant religious, cultural, and linguistic differences even still today. So I'm not sure that we can easily discard the differences that come from borders or geography, even within a small area. Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks.
      - baxtr 8y ago
        People will hate you if you ask for an Alt Bier in Munich... Seriously, though. I think you make a very strong point, which I’d like to call “resolution effect”. If you look at that something like the US from far away things look petty similar. However, once you zoom in patches appear and suddenly homogenity is replaced by heterogeneity. People tend to forget that easily. Conversely, I never felt more European than during my two years in the States
      - chimeracoder 8y ago
        > Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks. If this is what you think is remotely relevant in a conversation about a "diverse environment", I'm not sure what more can be said.
        poulsbohemian 8y ago
        My point was that diversity is more than race - it can be language, religion, politics, gender, and yes even cuisine. Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.”
- baxtr 8y ago
  This is complete BS. I live in Munich and work for a company with a high share of internationals. None of them wants to move to Berlin
  - Plastikdusche 8y ago
    I guess that would be survivorship bias? There are at least twice as many people living and "everyone here hates Munich and doesn't want to live there". I even know someone who works in Munich, but lives in Berlin. Jedem das seine ;)
    - baxtr 8y ago
      Or, maybe, just maybe, Berlin is twice as big as Munich?
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > Munich is generally not as open to foreigners as Berlin I'm sorry you're getting downvoted, because you're completely right.
gsich 8y ago
Munich is generally nicer then Berlin. Probably a bavarian trait.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Oh not even close

bitL 8y ago

Munich is generally not as open to foreigners as Berlin. Even more foreigners are in Frankfurt, but most hate living there, despite getting a funding is much easier than in Berlin/Munich - it's fun to see ICOs popping up there 1 year after they were relevant, so if you follow US trends, you can apply them without much effort over there a year later and be celebrated for copying some already well-known idea.

StreamBright 8y ago
I disagree. The companies in my network (anecdotal evidence) are full with international people. In our office we have nationals from 13 countries. This is the most diverse environment that I have ever seen (including San Francisco). There are some companies however who are hiring strictly Germans, just like with anything else the market will correct these mistakes. This is not the norm but the exception though. I am not sure what you are talking about when saying it is not as open. Renting an apartment is the most difficult part of moving to Munich. It is really bad. There are scammers, people do not want to deal with you if you don't speak German, etc, but this the downside. Getting registered, sorting out bank accounts, internet, mobile phone, socialising and any other aspect of being an ex-pat in Munich is average. The housing situation is the the result of supply and demand imbalance. I have had similar experience in San Francisco when people do not even reply to my email when I was using my Central European name but they were more than happy to reply to Steve. There are several options to mitigate that, you can just move to a smaller town around Munich the train connection is pretty good. Were you referring to the housing situation?
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > The companies in my network (anecdotal evidence) are full with international people. In our office we have nationals from 13 countries. This is the most diverse environment that I have ever seen (including San Francisco) I'll probably get downvoted for saying this, but it's important enough that I need to: country of origin is a completely meaningless way to measure diversity. Especially in Europe, where most countries are comparable to the size of individual states in the US and are relatively racially homogeneous, national origin doesn't measure anything meaningful. The problem with Munich is that, like Bavaria as a whole[0], it is incredibly racist. Specifically, if you look Muslim, Arab, or Middle Eastern, you're in for a really rough time. This shouldn't be too surprising if you look at recent trends in German politics, and specifically in Bavarian politics. I wouldn't hold Berlin up as a gold standard here by any means, but it's far better than either Frankfurt or Munich in this regard. [0] less so than the rest of Bavaria, but more so than any other comparable city in Germany
  - poulsbohemian 8y ago
    >Especially in Europe, where most countries are comparable to the size of individual states in the US I understand what you are saying, but having travelled around the US, mostly for business but some for pleasure, there are remarkable and under-appreciated differences among the states. I would go so far as to say that my state, Washington, and its neighboring Canadian province of British Columbia, have more in common culturally, socially, and economically than say, Washington state and Florida. Within Germany itself, which is approximately the size of Oregon, I found that there are also significant religious, cultural, and linguistic differences even still today. So I'm not sure that we can easily discard the differences that come from borders or geography, even within a small area. Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks.
    - baxtr 8y ago
      People will hate you if you ask for an Alt Bier in Munich... Seriously, though. I think you make a very strong point, which I’d like to call “resolution effect”. If you look at that something like the US from far away things look petty similar. However, once you zoom in patches appear and suddenly homogenity is replaced by heterogeneity. People tend to forget that easily. Conversely, I never felt more European than during my two years in the States
    - chimeracoder 8y ago
      > Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks. If this is what you think is remotely relevant in a conversation about a "diverse environment", I'm not sure what more can be said.
      - poulsbohemian 8y ago
        My point was that diversity is more than race - it can be language, religion, politics, gender, and yes even cuisine. Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.”
baxtr 8y ago
This is complete BS. I live in Munich and work for a company with a high share of internationals. None of them wants to move to Berlin
- Plastikdusche 8y ago
  I guess that would be survivorship bias? There are at least twice as many people living and "everyone here hates Munich and doesn't want to live there". I even know someone who works in Munich, but lives in Berlin. Jedem das seine ;)
  - baxtr 8y ago
    Or, maybe, just maybe, Berlin is twice as big as Munich?
chimeracoder 8y ago
> Munich is generally not as open to foreigners as Berlin I'm sorry you're getting downvoted, because you're completely right.

gsich 8y ago

Munich is generally nicer then Berlin. Probably a bavarian trait.

raverbashing 8y ago
Oh not even close