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One difference between the Kochs, Adelson, et al and Soros is that for the former there is a very obvious link between the causes they fund and benefits to thei

One difference between the Kochs, Adelson, et al and Soros is that for the former there is a very obvious link between the causes they fund and benefits to their own business empires (this is particularly stark with Adelson). Soros is harder to pin down and seems to be genuinely interested in the causes he supports, not just out of personal interest.

partiallypro 8y ago
The Kochs are libertarians, anything they do will be viewed as simply wanting to help their own business, even though that is not true when you actually evaluate what they have said. I personally don't think the Kochs nor Soros are bad people, and likely want what they view as what is best for society. They put their money where their mouths are, nothing nefarious about that. If the Kochs were only for their own self interests their main focus right now wouldn't be criminal justice reform.
- uniacid 8y ago
  So a few donations to seemingly good causes make them good? Don't be easily fooled by their "generosity" as it's not always as it seems to be, many times they fund "independent" organizations or think tanks which really are just foils for them to push their Conservative agenda. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/we-now-know-how-the-koch-brothers-and-leonard-leo-buy-special-favors.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/we-now-know-how-... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/trump-koch-brothers-deregulation-white-house/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/trump-koch-brot... https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-deniers/koch-industries/ https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-denier... https://www.ucsusa.org/publications/got-science/2017/got-science-feb-2017 https://www.ucsusa.org/publications/got-science/2017/got-sci... I can keep going on, so please don't paint them as just some "nice" guys who give money.
  - partiallypro 8y ago
    You do know that Soros also funds think tanks, right? Anyhow, you just cited 4 left leaning sites, so that's not helpful (and actually proves my point in other parts of this thread!) Charles Koch himself does not deny climate change (you can read about this in actual news sites like the Washington Post,) he is against corporate welfare like the government directly/indirectly subsidizing Tesla, etc. Which is perfectly in line with his libertarianism. Even the one source you could argue is somewhat "real," was from an opinion writer. Here's the rest of his pieces, which uh, don't seem so unbiased. https://slate.com/author/mark-joseph-stern https://slate.com/author/mark-joseph-stern
  - lawnchair_larry 8y ago
    You know conservatives can be generous and nice, right?
- tashoecraft 8y ago
  Except it doesn't matter what the Kochs have said, but rather what they have done for the past 50 years. Massive investments to overwhelmingly hardcore libertarian polices that have moved the needle of the nation to their ideals (except when those polices conflict with their business, like the amount of government deals they have taken and then block changes to). They very much don't put their money where there mouths are, as they put their money through a massive chain of anonymous shell organizations to hide their involvement. This has given the appearance of many right wing "grassroots" movements appearing as by the people, though when donations have been investigated they are overwhelmingly from single donors traced back to the Kochs. I don't really know that much about Soros, but the fact that people try to claim Soros is just the lefts version of the Kochs is very wrong on many levels. The most basic level is simply net worth, which is their influence ability. Soros is worth 8/9 billion, the Koch brothers are over 100 Billion. Their ability to buy politicians is that much greater. I believe the Kochs believe they are doing what they think is right, but I also believe they are evil for the country. Their ideals are not what benefits the country in the long run, but continues this trend of money and influence being contained within a tiny minority. The Kochs are very calculated people, they know what they are doing, and just being they are focused on criminal justice reform, doesn't mean they aren't also focused on other things that benefit them (and that criminal justice reform how they see it doesn't benefit them). The for profit prison industry owners are some of their peers who donate to their causes, they are playing every side they can.
  - partiallypro 8y ago
    You basically sound like Tucker Carlson, change every instance of "Koch" with "Soros" and you have the B block. Thanks for helping to prove my point. Every side needs a boogeyman, reality is too hard to comprehend.
    - tashoecraft 8y ago
      That’s the same argument as saying “well the other side said this, so the truth must be some where in the middle”, when that has no bearing on the argument. Please give Dark money a read. There’s a huge difference between media personalities spouting conspiracies and a well respected journalist spending years of there lives delving into something, whilst having their reputation under constant attack and being followed by private investigations hired to dig up any dirt on you.
nostromo 8y ago
The Kochs have given lots of money to non-self serving causes, from gay rights to stem cell research to black scholarships to PBS.
- lawnchair_larry 8y ago
  No. It doesn't count when the other side does it. They always only do it for insincere reasons, and our side always only does it for sincere reasons.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

partiallypro 8y ago

The Kochs are libertarians, anything they do will be viewed as simply wanting to help their own business, even though that is not true when you actually evaluate what they have said. I personally don't think the Kochs nor Soros are bad people, and likely want what they view as what is best for society. They put their money where their mouths are, nothing nefarious about that. If the Kochs were only for their own self interests their main focus right now wouldn't be criminal justice reform.

uniacid 8y ago
So a few donations to seemingly good causes make them good? Don't be easily fooled by their "generosity" as it's not always as it seems to be, many times they fund "independent" organizations or think tanks which really are just foils for them to push their Conservative agenda. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/we-now-know-how-the-koch-brothers-and-leonard-leo-buy-special-favors.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/we-now-know-how-... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/trump-koch-brothers-deregulation-white-house/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/trump-koch-brot... https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-deniers/koch-industries/ https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-denier... https://www.ucsusa.org/publications/got-science/2017/got-science-feb-2017 https://www.ucsusa.org/publications/got-science/2017/got-sci... I can keep going on, so please don't paint them as just some "nice" guys who give money.
- partiallypro 8y ago
  You do know that Soros also funds think tanks, right? Anyhow, you just cited 4 left leaning sites, so that's not helpful (and actually proves my point in other parts of this thread!) Charles Koch himself does not deny climate change (you can read about this in actual news sites like the Washington Post,) he is against corporate welfare like the government directly/indirectly subsidizing Tesla, etc. Which is perfectly in line with his libertarianism. Even the one source you could argue is somewhat "real," was from an opinion writer. Here's the rest of his pieces, which uh, don't seem so unbiased. https://slate.com/author/mark-joseph-stern https://slate.com/author/mark-joseph-stern
- lawnchair_larry 8y ago
  You know conservatives can be generous and nice, right?
tashoecraft 8y ago
Except it doesn't matter what the Kochs have said, but rather what they have done for the past 50 years. Massive investments to overwhelmingly hardcore libertarian polices that have moved the needle of the nation to their ideals (except when those polices conflict with their business, like the amount of government deals they have taken and then block changes to). They very much don't put their money where there mouths are, as they put their money through a massive chain of anonymous shell organizations to hide their involvement. This has given the appearance of many right wing "grassroots" movements appearing as by the people, though when donations have been investigated they are overwhelmingly from single donors traced back to the Kochs. I don't really know that much about Soros, but the fact that people try to claim Soros is just the lefts version of the Kochs is very wrong on many levels. The most basic level is simply net worth, which is their influence ability. Soros is worth 8/9 billion, the Koch brothers are over 100 Billion. Their ability to buy politicians is that much greater. I believe the Kochs believe they are doing what they think is right, but I also believe they are evil for the country. Their ideals are not what benefits the country in the long run, but continues this trend of money and influence being contained within a tiny minority. The Kochs are very calculated people, they know what they are doing, and just being they are focused on criminal justice reform, doesn't mean they aren't also focused on other things that benefit them (and that criminal justice reform how they see it doesn't benefit them). The for profit prison industry owners are some of their peers who donate to their causes, they are playing every side they can.
- partiallypro 8y ago
  You basically sound like Tucker Carlson, change every instance of "Koch" with "Soros" and you have the B block. Thanks for helping to prove my point. Every side needs a boogeyman, reality is too hard to comprehend.
  - tashoecraft 8y ago
    That’s the same argument as saying “well the other side said this, so the truth must be some where in the middle”, when that has no bearing on the argument. Please give Dark money a read. There’s a huge difference between media personalities spouting conspiracies and a well respected journalist spending years of there lives delving into something, whilst having their reputation under constant attack and being followed by private investigations hired to dig up any dirt on you.

nostromo 8y ago

The Kochs have given lots of money to non-self serving causes, from gay rights to stem cell research to black scholarships to PBS.

lawnchair_larry 8y ago
No. It doesn't count when the other side does it. They always only do it for insincere reasons, and our side always only does it for sincere reasons.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]