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Currently working my way through "Grit" by Angela Duckworth, it has some interesting things to say on smart people and why they can often grow up into underachi

Currently working my way through "Grit" by Angela Duckworth, it has some interesting things to say on smart people and why they can often grow up into underachievers. In school, the more average kids have to study hard to achieve good grades and thus learn a strong work ethic. Smart kids can often "coast" through school and thus don't pick up the same attitude to working through boring, hard, or long-lasting work. It's an interesting book and I'd recommend it to anyone wanting to learn more about the topic.

gdfer 8y ago
I second this. These concepts were a reality check for me.
OnACoffeeBreak 8y ago
I haven't read the book or really know much about Angela Duckworth's research. I just recall reading somewhere that much of her conclusions have been found to be incorrect. Quick search results from NPR: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/05/25/479172868/angela-duckworth-responds-to-a-new-critique-of-grit https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/05/25/479172868/angela-...
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  having read your linked article, it doesn't seem so much that her conclusions were incorrect but that she exaggerated (intentionally or unintentionally) their impact. Expanding on the subcomponents of big five traits like conscientiousness seems like valuable work to me. Nonetheless when I'm reading self-improvement books I always take the claims with a pinch of salt because most of them over-hype their contents anyway. I'm still finding the book interesting and educational nonetheless.
Balgair 8y ago
Interesting Idea: Find the smart kids that were up against massive cheating. A local HS near me had a HUGE cheating scandal. It ended up on the front page of the local Big-City paper and some episodes of Dr. Phil. The story, as I heard it, was that the kids made a wiki for their classwork and tests. It worked ok the first year. But in the second year, all the kids found out that none of the teachers ever changed a single question on a test or HW. Hence, all the answers were already in a wiki, ready to be applied. This went on for a few years before they were found out. I think there were about 300 kids in the racket, but I'm not sure. HSs here are about 3k kids, so ~10% of the school. I always wondered about the kids that were up against those cheater-kids. The smart ones that were trying to get into college (a huge motivator) yet were never clued into the cheating wiki. Likely, most of the smart kids just gave up in the face of near-perfection and massive cheating. But I imagine there were a fair few that kept on plugging away. I can't imagine what that did to their psyches, especially in those very formative years. EDIT: Found the citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Park_High_School_(Pleasant_Hill,_California)#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Park_High_School_(Plea...
- sudosteph 8y ago
  Honestly, I don't see why the smart kids would care. I knew plenty of people who cheated frequently, some even got better grades overall than me. I didn't hold it against anyone though. I was lucky enough to be able to do most of the same assignments very quickly without much effort because it came easy to me. I'm not going to begrudge others the same thing. The real problem is that most high schools provide a completely worthless education. They don't genuinely challenge gifted students or most anybody, at most they just a larger volume of work at them. High schoolers who can pass the entrance exams should just be able to go straight to community college. Community college, even for talented young people, can actually be a humbling experience for a whole host of totally different reasons.

gdfer 8y ago

I second this. These concepts were a reality check for me.

OnACoffeeBreak 8y ago

I haven't read the book or really know much about Angela Duckworth's research. I just recall reading somewhere that much of her conclusions have been found to be incorrect. Quick search results from NPR: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/05/25/479172868/angela-duckworth-responds-to-a-new-critique-of-grit https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/05/25/479172868/angela-...

beaconstudios 8y ago
having read your linked article, it doesn't seem so much that her conclusions were incorrect but that she exaggerated (intentionally or unintentionally) their impact. Expanding on the subcomponents of big five traits like conscientiousness seems like valuable work to me. Nonetheless when I'm reading self-improvement books I always take the claims with a pinch of salt because most of them over-hype their contents anyway. I'm still finding the book interesting and educational nonetheless.

Balgair 8y ago

Interesting Idea: Find the smart kids that were up against massive cheating. A local HS near me had a HUGE cheating scandal. It ended up on the front page of the local Big-City paper and some episodes of Dr. Phil. The story, as I heard it, was that the kids made a wiki for their classwork and tests. It worked ok the first year. But in the second year, all the kids found out that none of the teachers ever changed a single question on a test or HW. Hence, all the answers were already in a wiki, ready to be applied. This went on for a few years before they were found out. I think there were about 300 kids in the racket, but I'm not sure. HSs here are about 3k kids, so ~10% of the school. I always wondered about the kids that were up against those cheater-kids. The smart ones that were trying to get into college (a huge motivator) yet were never clued into the cheating wiki. Likely, most of the smart kids just gave up in the face of near-perfection and massive cheating. But I imagine there were a fair few that kept on plugging away. I can't imagine what that did to their psyches, especially in those very formative years. EDIT: Found the citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Park_High_School_(Pleasant_Hill,_California)#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Park_High_School_(Plea...

sudosteph 8y ago
Honestly, I don't see why the smart kids would care. I knew plenty of people who cheated frequently, some even got better grades overall than me. I didn't hold it against anyone though. I was lucky enough to be able to do most of the same assignments very quickly without much effort because it came easy to me. I'm not going to begrudge others the same thing. The real problem is that most high schools provide a completely worthless education. They don't genuinely challenge gifted students or most anybody, at most they just a larger volume of work at them. High schoolers who can pass the entrance exams should just be able to go straight to community college. Community college, even for talented young people, can actually be a humbling experience for a whole host of totally different reasons.