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Ministers are all about government functions. As long as he has the right people below him and is able to listen to them and exercise judgment, that's what real

Ministers are all about government functions. As long as he has the right people below him and is able to listen to them and exercise judgment, that's what really counts. What's weird though is "never" having used a computer. I mean, doesn't everyone write/edit with a computer these days? Do people at that level just verbally stream-of-consciousness dictate their memos and secretaries enter them? THAT is weird.

newsbinator 8y ago
You can't really exercise judgement about a context you can't fathom. It'd be like a person who's never been to Japan, never studied Japanese, and only read about Japan in popular magazines or seen news reports on tv exercising judgement about how Japanese society should be run. Sure, he'd have the right people below him. But he'd have no idea if what they're telling him makes any sense, and often his intuition about what he's hearing would be wrong, because he'd be using analogies that don't/can't fit. That's how you get into "internet is a series of tubes" territory.
- crispyambulance 8y ago
  > But he'd have no idea if what they're telling him makes any sense, and often his intuition about what he's hearing would be wrong, because he'd be using analogies that don't/can't fit. That all depends on how much trust and responsibility he puts into the hands of his subordinates. In a way, it's like dividing a role into several people. He handles the government-side, the domain experts handle their sides. A micro-manager, of course, would be a disaster in such a position but it can work with the right people and organizational structures.
arbuge 8y ago
> and exercise judgment This is specifically the part he will probably struggle with if he is responsible for cybersecurity but has never used a computer. Sometimes things sounds crazy simply because they really are.
Someone1234 8y ago
> As long as he has the right people below him and is able to listen to them and exercise judgment, that's what really counts. So he's a puppet then? Different people just pull on different strings and he makes a call arbitrarily? While nobody expects the minister in charge of e.g. nuclear power to be a nuclear engineer, we do expect them to understand how the plants basically operate, and common failure conditions. In this case we have someone expected to make calls about computer security who not only lacks expertise in that area, but even in the broader area of computing. The issue isn't that they aren't a subject matter expert, the issue is that they lack such core foundation that they cannot listen to different subject matter experts and contextualize that information. I'm all for less technical managers as a concept but there are degrees. If the manager cannot even understand the context, that's a legitimate problem.
- crispyambulance 8y ago
  > Different people just pull on different strings and he makes a call arbitrarily? I wouldn't say it was "arbitrary", but yes, he would have to assign responsibility to others for decisions and then trust them. It's not that uncommon. Assuming we're talking about a functional department (and not a Trump-cabinet-like dysfunctional mess), I think we can safely assume the guy understands the concepts, problems and capability of computers and more importantly how these relate to government. I once worked with a physics postdoc who LITERALLY never used a computer for his role in the Russian institute in which he worked back in the early 90's. All computer work was allocated out to computing professionals and he just relied on them to do the work in consultation with him. It was kind of strange, but I would say he "understood" computers very well. A similar thing could apply here.
hrktb 8y ago
In a brief encounter with a very high profile executive of a 5000+ employee company, I was explained that the more he got closer to the top, the less he caries on him, to the point that currently he only brings his wallet, his phone, a pen and a mini notepad. Bringing more than that for him meant something went wrong.
- lreeves 8y ago
  Cool story but I bet he knew what a USB device was and had used a computer at some point.

newsbinator 8y ago

You can't really exercise judgement about a context you can't fathom. It'd be like a person who's never been to Japan, never studied Japanese, and only read about Japan in popular magazines or seen news reports on tv exercising judgement about how Japanese society should be run. Sure, he'd have the right people below him. But he'd have no idea if what they're telling him makes any sense, and often his intuition about what he's hearing would be wrong, because he'd be using analogies that don't/can't fit. That's how you get into "internet is a series of tubes" territory.

crispyambulance 8y ago
> But he'd have no idea if what they're telling him makes any sense, and often his intuition about what he's hearing would be wrong, because he'd be using analogies that don't/can't fit. That all depends on how much trust and responsibility he puts into the hands of his subordinates. In a way, it's like dividing a role into several people. He handles the government-side, the domain experts handle their sides. A micro-manager, of course, would be a disaster in such a position but it can work with the right people and organizational structures.

arbuge 8y ago

> and exercise judgment This is specifically the part he will probably struggle with if he is responsible for cybersecurity but has never used a computer. Sometimes things sounds crazy simply because they really are.

Someone1234 8y ago

> As long as he has the right people below him and is able to listen to them and exercise judgment, that's what really counts. So he's a puppet then? Different people just pull on different strings and he makes a call arbitrarily? While nobody expects the minister in charge of e.g. nuclear power to be a nuclear engineer, we do expect them to understand how the plants basically operate, and common failure conditions. In this case we have someone expected to make calls about computer security who not only lacks expertise in that area, but even in the broader area of computing. The issue isn't that they aren't a subject matter expert, the issue is that they lack such core foundation that they cannot listen to different subject matter experts and contextualize that information. I'm all for less technical managers as a concept but there are degrees. If the manager cannot even understand the context, that's a legitimate problem.

crispyambulance 8y ago
> Different people just pull on different strings and he makes a call arbitrarily? I wouldn't say it was "arbitrary", but yes, he would have to assign responsibility to others for decisions and then trust them. It's not that uncommon. Assuming we're talking about a functional department (and not a Trump-cabinet-like dysfunctional mess), I think we can safely assume the guy understands the concepts, problems and capability of computers and more importantly how these relate to government. I once worked with a physics postdoc who LITERALLY never used a computer for his role in the Russian institute in which he worked back in the early 90's. All computer work was allocated out to computing professionals and he just relied on them to do the work in consultation with him. It was kind of strange, but I would say he "understood" computers very well. A similar thing could apply here.

hrktb 8y ago

In a brief encounter with a very high profile executive of a 5000+ employee company, I was explained that the more he got closer to the top, the less he caries on him, to the point that currently he only brings his wallet, his phone, a pen and a mini notepad. Bringing more than that for him meant something went wrong.

lreeves 8y ago
Cool story but I bet he knew what a USB device was and had used a computer at some point.