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The google phrase for this article in general is "exogenous force". As long as the worldwide financial markets will only fund startups in SV staffed by young S

by VLM 8y ago

The google phrase for this article in general is "exogenous force". As long as the worldwide financial markets will only fund startups in SV staffed by young Stanford grads, Stanford will never be able to produce enough grads to staff the result of a world wide financial bubble. Imagine if the housing bubble last decade would only hire house framing carpenters born in Boise ID. Eventually the idea of doing a startup in Chicago, Berlin, Paris, Prague, will change from "impossible" to "insanely rebellious and financially reckless" to "thats a great idea" and at that point the candidate pool being too small will disappear. There are other exogenous forces such as companies that want to hire H1Bs, for whatever reason, must in public declare a labor shortage for legal reasons regardless if one exists or not. I'm not trying to debate H1B program but to state authoritatively that it legally requires corporate statements about the labor market to a pre-defined value of 'shortage' regardless of actual market conditions. As if in a thought experiment federal regulators required CNBC to report false numbers for todays Dow Jones index and people actually debated policy based on the legally required fake numbers. Any corporate statement by any company hiring, or planning to hire H1Bs in the future, is inherently legally required to be a false, fixed statement of 'shortage'.

qaq 8y ago
SV startups don't just hire Stanford grads I think people like to apply that stereotype to make them fill better if they get rejected and it is generally applied to a portion of FANG and not startups. (In reality I know a good number of people working at Google who have degrees from schools which are not even in world's top 100). Working for large company and looking at other large companies the H1B debate is being made irrelevant being tired of convincing people it's an issue they just opened up offices abroad. We for example have developers in US, Germany, Ireland, India.
- VLM 8y ago
  We've clearly circularized the argument back to there is shortage, because clearly programmers in India as a group are not paid nearly as much as programmers in SV; there seems to be no labor shortage given that ageism is popular across the industry, women are more or less not allowed, etc. If it would be considered shockingly newsworthy that a company hires old female programmers in India for the same pay as young white guys in SV, that in itself seems evidence there is no shortage at all. The inability to hire given a "fish in the barrel" hiring target, might indicate a shortage of quality management, especially HR management, but clearly not a shortage of software development professionals. Suggesting companies need to pay more to get better management, given income disparities that already exist... The real story is no matter how much more management is paid, for various workplace or cultural or demographic or educational issues the management product produced even at ridiculous pay rates is shockingly deficient.
  - agsdfgsd 8y ago
    >women are more or less not allowed, etc. Companies are tripping over each other trying to hire women. My wife is blindly offered jobs entirely because she is a woman. Not secretly or anything, they literally say "we are looking for women for our team". >If it would be considered shockingly newsworthy that a company hires old female programmers in India for the same pay as young white guys in SV, that in itself seems evidence there is no shortage at all No it isn't. There is no reason to believe old Indian women are as qualified as young white men. There's actually huge reasons to believe they are not. And why are you so fixated on white men? Considering the demographics of the USA, white men are under-represented in US tech jobs, Asian and Indian men are over-represented.
    - qaq 8y ago
      Why everything un PC is downvoted? People put eniugh pressure on companies that many actually do hire exactly as outlined above.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Observation: Many tech professionals are comfortable with active discrimination because it aligns with their political and social beliefs (ie "women have been underrepresented in the past, so we should weigh them more heavily in the future when considering them as candidates, or actively seek women out for roles").
  - qaq 8y ago
    It also might indicate that outside of FANG companies have not cornered huge markets and became monopolies.
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  It appears the hardening of requirements for H!B's made a new market in OPT, where there is no limit on total number, just years of service. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/13/h-1b-alternative-opt-for-foreign-students-and-grads-hits-record-as-enrollment-falls/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/13/h-1b-alternative-opt-...

by VLM 8y ago

qaq 8y ago

SV startups don't just hire Stanford grads I think people like to apply that stereotype to make them fill better if they get rejected and it is generally applied to a portion of FANG and not startups. (In reality I know a good number of people working at Google who have degrees from schools which are not even in world's top 100). Working for large company and looking at other large companies the H1B debate is being made irrelevant being tired of convincing people it's an issue they just opened up offices abroad. We for example have developers in US, Germany, Ireland, India.

VLM 8y ago
We've clearly circularized the argument back to there is shortage, because clearly programmers in India as a group are not paid nearly as much as programmers in SV; there seems to be no labor shortage given that ageism is popular across the industry, women are more or less not allowed, etc. If it would be considered shockingly newsworthy that a company hires old female programmers in India for the same pay as young white guys in SV, that in itself seems evidence there is no shortage at all. The inability to hire given a "fish in the barrel" hiring target, might indicate a shortage of quality management, especially HR management, but clearly not a shortage of software development professionals. Suggesting companies need to pay more to get better management, given income disparities that already exist... The real story is no matter how much more management is paid, for various workplace or cultural or demographic or educational issues the management product produced even at ridiculous pay rates is shockingly deficient.
- agsdfgsd 8y ago
  >women are more or less not allowed, etc. Companies are tripping over each other trying to hire women. My wife is blindly offered jobs entirely because she is a woman. Not secretly or anything, they literally say "we are looking for women for our team". >If it would be considered shockingly newsworthy that a company hires old female programmers in India for the same pay as young white guys in SV, that in itself seems evidence there is no shortage at all No it isn't. There is no reason to believe old Indian women are as qualified as young white men. There's actually huge reasons to believe they are not. And why are you so fixated on white men? Considering the demographics of the USA, white men are under-represented in US tech jobs, Asian and Indian men are over-represented.
  - qaq 8y ago
    Why everything un PC is downvoted? People put eniugh pressure on companies that many actually do hire exactly as outlined above.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Observation: Many tech professionals are comfortable with active discrimination because it aligns with their political and social beliefs (ie "women have been underrepresented in the past, so we should weigh them more heavily in the future when considering them as candidates, or actively seek women out for roles").
- qaq 8y ago
  It also might indicate that outside of FANG companies have not cornered huge markets and became monopolies.
stevenwoo 8y ago
It appears the hardening of requirements for H!B's made a new market in OPT, where there is no limit on total number, just years of service. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/13/h-1b-alternative-opt-for-foreign-students-and-grads-hits-record-as-enrollment-falls/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/13/h-1b-alternative-opt-...