4 ms·

It's immensely unfortunate that there's still this ingrained mindset that in order to live a proper middle-class life you have to settle in the middle of suburb

It's immensely unfortunate that there's still this ingrained mindset that in order to live a proper middle-class life you have to settle in the middle of suburbia hell where there's nothing around for miles. Though it doesn't help that the entire system is built to subsidize and encourage islands of suburbia separated by long stretches of highway. Japan's centralization of population, strong public transit systems and city design is something that vastly appeals to me.

eecsninja 8y ago
Can't blame American families for choosing suburbia. US cities are a mess -- too many crazies, needles and trash everywhere, traffic congestion and poor public transit, expensive housing, and so forth. And there's no political will anywhere in the USA, suburban or urban areas, to change any of this.
- closeparen 8y ago
  US cities are a mess because middle class families abandoned them for the newly built suburbs in a coordinated, subsidized, and regulated movement. Individual families were not expected to walk out into the fields and personally make them habitable. They certainly weren’t turned away by policies designed to preserve the status quo, compensate/empower those adversely affected by a proposed change, etc. Highway construction, planning codes, development and mortgage finance, public debt, subsidized infrastructure, etc. were all assembled and optimized to make it as easy as possible for suburbia to happen precisely as it did. That was a choice. We could make the same choice about urbanism. (Imagine an Interstate Highway System-level investment in urban subways). We don’t.
  - Tempest1981 8y ago
    We’re funding mass transit at a fraction of the rate necessary, and I don’t see that changing - along as governments are considered incompetent and taxes are considered evil.
    - eecsninja 8y ago
      We're also building transit at 5x the cost per unit of distance. Compare the costs of NYC second avenue versus recent Tokyo and Paris lines.
    - closeparen 8y ago
      That can’t really be the philosophy - even red states love their highways.
nandemo 8y ago
Tokyo's public transit system is overrated IMO. Sure, trains and subways cover a lot of ground and are usually on time, but most of the lines are well over 100% crowdedness during rush hour: https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/the-most-crowded-train-and-subway-lines-in-tokyo-osaka-and-nagoya-are https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/the-most-...
- m_mueller 8y ago
  I wouldn't want to do this daily and thus wouldn't accept work in the business center of Tokyo. But here's why Japanese way of living and commuting still makes more sense to me than the equivalent in the US: * Japan has a very open zoning law. There's nothing stopping developers building residential buildings of different pricing levels right next to businesses. This more often allows people to move close to their work. * partly thanks to the first reason, Tokyo is quite a bit less centralized than, say, NY. You can also see this clearly in its skyline. I found that even during rush hours it's usually no problem for me to arrive where I need on time - on those lines that can get completely full the frequency of connections tends to be very high, so you can just wait in line for the next one. And yes, queueing for a train actually works in Japan. * Even when taking a crowded train I still feel more relaxed than a similar situation in Europe or the US - mainly because Japanese are just more considerate. People are always filling up empty spaces, move with the flow and give space when needed - you just ask nicely and otherwise do what you can on your part to make things work together. There's also no smells and no noises. I think I could get used even to rush hour - just put on head phones and move like everyone else, don't rush, calculate additional time so you don't have to. Don't get me wrong, their system is far from perfect - it's just that among the alternatives I find it one of the better ones. The problem I have there is more with work culture and education, but there's hope for betterment lately at least for the former.

eecsninja 8y ago

Can't blame American families for choosing suburbia. US cities are a mess -- too many crazies, needles and trash everywhere, traffic congestion and poor public transit, expensive housing, and so forth. And there's no political will anywhere in the USA, suburban or urban areas, to change any of this.

closeparen 8y ago
US cities are a mess because middle class families abandoned them for the newly built suburbs in a coordinated, subsidized, and regulated movement. Individual families were not expected to walk out into the fields and personally make them habitable. They certainly weren’t turned away by policies designed to preserve the status quo, compensate/empower those adversely affected by a proposed change, etc. Highway construction, planning codes, development and mortgage finance, public debt, subsidized infrastructure, etc. were all assembled and optimized to make it as easy as possible for suburbia to happen precisely as it did. That was a choice. We could make the same choice about urbanism. (Imagine an Interstate Highway System-level investment in urban subways). We don’t.
- Tempest1981 8y ago
  We’re funding mass transit at a fraction of the rate necessary, and I don’t see that changing - along as governments are considered incompetent and taxes are considered evil.
  - eecsninja 8y ago
    We're also building transit at 5x the cost per unit of distance. Compare the costs of NYC second avenue versus recent Tokyo and Paris lines.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    That can’t really be the philosophy - even red states love their highways.

nandemo 8y ago

Tokyo's public transit system is overrated IMO. Sure, trains and subways cover a lot of ground and are usually on time, but most of the lines are well over 100% crowdedness during rush hour: https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/the-most-crowded-train-and-subway-lines-in-tokyo-osaka-and-nagoya-are https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/the-most-...

m_mueller 8y ago
I wouldn't want to do this daily and thus wouldn't accept work in the business center of Tokyo. But here's why Japanese way of living and commuting still makes more sense to me than the equivalent in the US: * Japan has a very open zoning law. There's nothing stopping developers building residential buildings of different pricing levels right next to businesses. This more often allows people to move close to their work. * partly thanks to the first reason, Tokyo is quite a bit less centralized than, say, NY. You can also see this clearly in its skyline. I found that even during rush hours it's usually no problem for me to arrive where I need on time - on those lines that can get completely full the frequency of connections tends to be very high, so you can just wait in line for the next one. And yes, queueing for a train actually works in Japan. * Even when taking a crowded train I still feel more relaxed than a similar situation in Europe or the US - mainly because Japanese are just more considerate. People are always filling up empty spaces, move with the flow and give space when needed - you just ask nicely and otherwise do what you can on your part to make things work together. There's also no smells and no noises. I think I could get used even to rush hour - just put on head phones and move like everyone else, don't rush, calculate additional time so you don't have to. Don't get me wrong, their system is far from perfect - it's just that among the alternatives I find it one of the better ones. The problem I have there is more with work culture and education, but there's hope for betterment lately at least for the former.