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You cannot get "macros" from fat - you get energy, but you need more than energy to survive. If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce i

You cannot get "macros" from fat - you get energy, but you need more than energy to survive. If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it. There's also evidence that muscle is burned first before fat deposits. The only thing that fasting does and people misunderstand the results is increasing HGH, but any growth factors are cancer factors,m too. Increased metabolism also means faster aging.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
I corrected that part of my comment ("with the majority of your calories coming from fat macros"). Regarding "If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it", this is a myth (as long as you are consuming an adequate amount of protein; strength training is helpful if able) [1]. Your body will produce ketone/ketone bodies (an adequate substitute for bodily organs demanding glucose) once your glucose stores are exhausted, and will continue to do so as long as you restrict ingestion of carbohydrates and don't run out of body fat. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ > More recently, Willi et al. examined the efficacy and metabolic impact of a VLCARB in the treatment of morbidly obese adolescents [4]. Six adolescents weighing an average of 147.8 kg consumed the VLCARB (25 g of carbohydrate/day) for 8 weeks. The results indicated that the weight loss with VLCARB is rapid, consistent, and almost exclusively from body fat stores. Changes in lean body mass, as estimated from DEXA and urinary creatinine, were not significant over the term of treatment. Bioelectrical impedance measurements reflected a greater loss of lean body mass, but changes in total body fluid and electrolyte content, as a result of dietary ketosis, may complicate these measurements. > Although more long-term studies are needed before a firm conclusion can be drawn, it appears, from most literature studied, that a VLCARB is, if anything, protective against muscle protein catabolism during energy restriction, provided that it contains adequate amounts of protein.
- nikolay 8y ago
  You can't eat protein on a fast. Protein also increases blood sugar, and too much of it is detrimental in many ways and growth factors such as IGF-1 being just one.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    You're moving the goal posts. We're not talking about a fast, we're talking about a very low carbohydrate diet. The paper I reference demonstrates that a carbohydrate restriction does not incur muscular catabolism when protein is a component of your low carbohydrate diet (which should primarily be fats to prevent excessive protein from kicking you out of ketosis).
    - nikolay 8y ago
      Not really as low-carb diets are done mostly by people who do IF. Not all carbs are not evil! We've evolved to digest milk in adulthood and take advantage of slow carbs. The bad carbs are the refined ones - we haven't had much of these in the past. Low-carb diets are especially unsuited for women. If you look at people who lived healthy and long lives, they weren't gulping on coconut oil and refined MCT oils. Anyway, I don't think empty sugar calories are much different than empty fat calories. Carbs bring more nutrients than fats like coconut, for example. Nobody also cares on the microbiota effect of fat overload! Again, if you have epilepsy or schizophrenia, okay, no doubt, keto is great as therapy, but is it great for just anybody and does it lead to a long healthy life? There are no data to support such a statement! On the contrary, all anecdotal data points that moderation is the best strategy. Oh, wait - 6 meals a day is also a modern brainfart - people used to eat 1-2 times a day with no snacking! So, enough fad diets with no scientific proof behind them! The only thing that makes sense today is backed by research - maintain mitochondrial QC, cycle mito fusion with fission - all chronic diseases pretty much are caused by dysfunctional mitochondria, and I don't think keto supports that strategy well!
      - thrower123 8y ago
        > as low-carb diets are done mostly by people who do IF What? Maybe, but I think citation is needed there. The most widely popular keto diet, Atkins, doesn't say a thing about fasting - when you boil it down, and don't do any of the stupid carb-replacement recipe trickery that a lot of people do, Atkins equates to: take your normal meal with meat, starch, and vegetable, and stop making the starch, eat a little more vegetable if you want. Voila, there goes 500-1000 calories a day, more if you're eating starchy/sugary snacks. And you won't be hungry between meals. It's not rocket science.
_up 8y ago
You missed the part where the body uses Glycogen resources while on a high carb diet and stores excess carbs as fat. You only lose fat if your blood glucose levels are low enough. And obese people often are pre-diabetic and actually have to eat low carb and fast to get their levels low enough to actually burn fat.
- nikolay 8y ago
  Not at all. Don't eat excessively, and caloric restriction is the way to go and proven over the ages - Okinawans have a rule of how much to eat - read about it! Diabetic people actually need carbs as if they use insulin shots, they often get hypoglycemic. If you have an active lifestyle, your BG actually just replenishes your glycogen depots and possibly you don't have much excess fat anyway. So, live a healthy lifestyle and then a moderate diet will work just perfectly! Anyway, fat deposits in moderate size are not a bad thing. In fact, in many cases, they save lives - the evolution did not invent them without a solid reason. Yes, excessive fat is bad for men as it's feminizing, but doesn't have a huge impact on women when you look at the studies. There's also a good reason why fat is not so easily mobilized.
  - nonbel 8y ago
    >"Don't eat excessively" Yes, a low carb diet makes people feel less hungry, so they eat less. A (supposedly) "normal" carb diet makes many people hungrier than they should be so they eat excessively.
    - nikolay 8y ago
      That's not true. Fast carbs make you hungry again. Slow carbs satiate pretty well. Eating frequently also makes you hungry faster. Two meals a day with slow carbs won't make you eat more.
      - nonbel 8y ago
        Well, all you need to do is try it to see for yourself. It takes a week, just eat meat and cobb/greek salad and broiled broccoli and green beans or whatever. Basically just cut out the grains (+ potatoes/fries, etc) they try to trick you into eating. That is all it takes.
barry-cotter 8y ago
Fat provides energy. Vitamins and minerals are either fat or water soluble. Meat will provide copious protein and all of the amino acids of which they are made, essential ones and those humans can synthesise themselves. An all meat diet is perfectly healthy as long as you have enough energy, vitamins and minerals, all of which can be tackled by eating adequate fat.
- nikolay 8y ago
  You don't need huge amounts of fat to absorb vitamins. For example, all vitamin D3 pills have a drop of olive oil. Ketotards eat a huge amount of fat thinking they are providing nutrients. Yes, you need fats, just like you need carbs, but not in excess. Meat has vitamins and minerals, too. I'm not against meat, I'm against overeating when you're 30+.
  - barry-cotter 8y ago
    What is your point then? An all meat diet is perfectly healthy if it includes enough fat. You started off by saying that you can’t get anything but energy from fat and that you need more than energy to survive. > You cannot get "macros" from fat - you get energy, but you need more than energy to survive. That’s not true. If you eat fat as part of an all meat diet you’ll have enough energy and nutrition to survive without problems. I wouldn’t be too surprised if a diet that was mostly fat with some lean meat worked as well. > If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it. There's also evidence that muscle is burned first before fat deposits. Neither of these are true either. If you’re fasting and you stop exercising you will lose muscle rapidly as it gets broken down but if you continue exercising you’ll lose fat and a very small amount of muscle, accelerating over time. > Ketotards eat a huge amount of fat thinking they are providing nutrients. Yes, you need fats, just like you need carbs, but not in excess. If you’re eating nothing but meat you do in fact need fat to get enough nutrients. Given that carbohydrates are unnecessary to a healthy diet and meat is also unnecessary any notion of excess that claims to be acultural is ridiculous. > Meat has vitamins and minerals, too. I'm not against meat, I'm against overeating when you're 30+. This is the first time you’ve mentioned age or overeating. Every statement of fact you’ve made has been wrong. What was the point of taking part in this discussion?

toomuchtodo 8y ago

I corrected that part of my comment ("with the majority of your calories coming from fat macros"). Regarding "If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it", this is a myth (as long as you are consuming an adequate amount of protein; strength training is helpful if able) [1]. Your body will produce ketone/ketone bodies (an adequate substitute for bodily organs demanding glucose) once your glucose stores are exhausted, and will continue to do so as long as you restrict ingestion of carbohydrates and don't run out of body fat. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ > More recently, Willi et al. examined the efficacy and metabolic impact of a VLCARB in the treatment of morbidly obese adolescents [4]. Six adolescents weighing an average of 147.8 kg consumed the VLCARB (25 g of carbohydrate/day) for 8 weeks. The results indicated that the weight loss with VLCARB is rapid, consistent, and almost exclusively from body fat stores. Changes in lean body mass, as estimated from DEXA and urinary creatinine, were not significant over the term of treatment. Bioelectrical impedance measurements reflected a greater loss of lean body mass, but changes in total body fluid and electrolyte content, as a result of dietary ketosis, may complicate these measurements. > Although more long-term studies are needed before a firm conclusion can be drawn, it appears, from most literature studied, that a VLCARB is, if anything, protective against muscle protein catabolism during energy restriction, provided that it contains adequate amounts of protein.

nikolay 8y ago
You can't eat protein on a fast. Protein also increases blood sugar, and too much of it is detrimental in many ways and growth factors such as IGF-1 being just one.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  You're moving the goal posts. We're not talking about a fast, we're talking about a very low carbohydrate diet. The paper I reference demonstrates that a carbohydrate restriction does not incur muscular catabolism when protein is a component of your low carbohydrate diet (which should primarily be fats to prevent excessive protein from kicking you out of ketosis).
  - nikolay 8y ago
    Not really as low-carb diets are done mostly by people who do IF. Not all carbs are not evil! We've evolved to digest milk in adulthood and take advantage of slow carbs. The bad carbs are the refined ones - we haven't had much of these in the past. Low-carb diets are especially unsuited for women. If you look at people who lived healthy and long lives, they weren't gulping on coconut oil and refined MCT oils. Anyway, I don't think empty sugar calories are much different than empty fat calories. Carbs bring more nutrients than fats like coconut, for example. Nobody also cares on the microbiota effect of fat overload! Again, if you have epilepsy or schizophrenia, okay, no doubt, keto is great as therapy, but is it great for just anybody and does it lead to a long healthy life? There are no data to support such a statement! On the contrary, all anecdotal data points that moderation is the best strategy. Oh, wait - 6 meals a day is also a modern brainfart - people used to eat 1-2 times a day with no snacking! So, enough fad diets with no scientific proof behind them! The only thing that makes sense today is backed by research - maintain mitochondrial QC, cycle mito fusion with fission - all chronic diseases pretty much are caused by dysfunctional mitochondria, and I don't think keto supports that strategy well!
    - thrower123 8y ago
      > as low-carb diets are done mostly by people who do IF What? Maybe, but I think citation is needed there. The most widely popular keto diet, Atkins, doesn't say a thing about fasting - when you boil it down, and don't do any of the stupid carb-replacement recipe trickery that a lot of people do, Atkins equates to: take your normal meal with meat, starch, and vegetable, and stop making the starch, eat a little more vegetable if you want. Voila, there goes 500-1000 calories a day, more if you're eating starchy/sugary snacks. And you won't be hungry between meals. It's not rocket science.

_up 8y ago

You missed the part where the body uses Glycogen resources while on a high carb diet and stores excess carbs as fat. You only lose fat if your blood glucose levels are low enough. And obese people often are pre-diabetic and actually have to eat low carb and fast to get their levels low enough to actually burn fat.

nikolay 8y ago
Not at all. Don't eat excessively, and caloric restriction is the way to go and proven over the ages - Okinawans have a rule of how much to eat - read about it! Diabetic people actually need carbs as if they use insulin shots, they often get hypoglycemic. If you have an active lifestyle, your BG actually just replenishes your glycogen depots and possibly you don't have much excess fat anyway. So, live a healthy lifestyle and then a moderate diet will work just perfectly! Anyway, fat deposits in moderate size are not a bad thing. In fact, in many cases, they save lives - the evolution did not invent them without a solid reason. Yes, excessive fat is bad for men as it's feminizing, but doesn't have a huge impact on women when you look at the studies. There's also a good reason why fat is not so easily mobilized.
- nonbel 8y ago
  >"Don't eat excessively" Yes, a low carb diet makes people feel less hungry, so they eat less. A (supposedly) "normal" carb diet makes many people hungrier than they should be so they eat excessively.
  - nikolay 8y ago
    That's not true. Fast carbs make you hungry again. Slow carbs satiate pretty well. Eating frequently also makes you hungry faster. Two meals a day with slow carbs won't make you eat more.
    - nonbel 8y ago
      Well, all you need to do is try it to see for yourself. It takes a week, just eat meat and cobb/greek salad and broiled broccoli and green beans or whatever. Basically just cut out the grains (+ potatoes/fries, etc) they try to trick you into eating. That is all it takes.

barry-cotter 8y ago

Fat provides energy. Vitamins and minerals are either fat or water soluble. Meat will provide copious protein and all of the amino acids of which they are made, essential ones and those humans can synthesise themselves. An all meat diet is perfectly healthy as long as you have enough energy, vitamins and minerals, all of which can be tackled by eating adequate fat.

nikolay 8y ago
You don't need huge amounts of fat to absorb vitamins. For example, all vitamin D3 pills have a drop of olive oil. Ketotards eat a huge amount of fat thinking they are providing nutrients. Yes, you need fats, just like you need carbs, but not in excess. Meat has vitamins and minerals, too. I'm not against meat, I'm against overeating when you're 30+.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  What is your point then? An all meat diet is perfectly healthy if it includes enough fat. You started off by saying that you can’t get anything but energy from fat and that you need more than energy to survive. > You cannot get "macros" from fat - you get energy, but you need more than energy to survive. That’s not true. If you eat fat as part of an all meat diet you’ll have enough energy and nutrition to survive without problems. I wouldn’t be too surprised if a diet that was mostly fat with some lean meat worked as well. > If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it. There's also evidence that muscle is burned first before fat deposits. Neither of these are true either. If you’re fasting and you stop exercising you will lose muscle rapidly as it gets broken down but if you continue exercising you’ll lose fat and a very small amount of muscle, accelerating over time. > Ketotards eat a huge amount of fat thinking they are providing nutrients. Yes, you need fats, just like you need carbs, but not in excess. If you’re eating nothing but meat you do in fact need fat to get enough nutrients. Given that carbohydrates are unnecessary to a healthy diet and meat is also unnecessary any notion of excess that claims to be acultural is ridiculous. > Meat has vitamins and minerals, too. I'm not against meat, I'm against overeating when you're 30+. This is the first time you’ve mentioned age or overeating. Every statement of fact you’ve made has been wrong. What was the point of taking part in this discussion?