9 ms·

I can't even tell you how many connectivity and graphics technologies MS launched, I developed on, and then they abandoned. I struggle to understand why people

I can't even tell you how many connectivity and graphics technologies MS launched, I developed on, and then they abandoned. I struggle to understand why people think MS deserves enterprise trust & goodwill.

sfifs 8y ago
Because businesses fundamentally run on Outlook and Office and support for that has been pretty amazingly consistent. Yes I've seen SharePoints and Skydrives and OneDrives and Yammers but none of them are critical the way Office and Outlook are
- brazzledazzle 8y ago
  They burned people with their original on-prem OneDrive bullshit.
- MisterTea 8y ago
  You can also add Active Directory to that list. Stupid simple to setup, join machines and setup policies. Small businesses with tens of pc's are easily managed from a single domain controller and the licensing isn't that bad when you're revenue easily covers costs. Oh, and Office 365 is a blessing. I never thought I'd actually like SaaS anything from Microsoft but it works really well Office. It's also much easier than selling a $6000+ purchase req for 15-20 new office licenses. Especially when the boss doesn't see why office 2003 is obsolete in 2011 if it "still works fine for me". ~$240 a month was an easy sell with "free" exchange email and upgrades. Yea small shops are fun to work at.
paulryanrogers 8y ago
Like GDI? (Honest question, not much of a graphics coder myself)
- AlexeyBrin 8y ago
  You can use GDI and GDI+ on Windows 10 from VS 2017 without a problem.
  - VikingCoder 8y ago
    This is like patents expiring. By the time the patent expires, it's not valuable any more, because the new stuff is superior. In the MS land, I get to completely rewrite my app, because I need the new hotness, which doesn't work with the old API.
    - int_19h 8y ago
      That's because the new hotness is often outright not possible to fit within the constraints of the old API. It's the same on all platforms, really. The difference is that on Windows, you can choose to not chase the new hotness if you don't actually need it. E.g. there are still people writing WinForms and even MFC apps, because it works for them, and they don't need anything flashy. And that is a fully supported scenario - not just running the old stuff on new platforms, but even writing new code that uses the old frameworks in the latest-and-greatest Visual Studio.
  - dman 8y ago
    If GDI broke there would be a riot in financial firms.
shittyadmin 8y ago
> I can't even tell you how many connectivity and graphics technologies MS launched, I developed on, and then they abandoned. How many of these technologies still function on Windows 10? As far as I know many of their abandoned platforms are still fully functional. Even in Windows 10 you can still install 16-bit apps. They've always been dedicated to compatibility... try running a few year old app on a modern smartphone and you'll see the difference.
- gruez 8y ago
  >Windows 10 you can still install 16-bit apps what? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/896458/64-bit-versions-of-windows-do-not-support-16-bit-components-16-bit-pro https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/896458/64-bit-versi...
  - slededit 8y ago
    They ship 32-bit versions still to support those people. As a former msft engineer it was a huge pain in the ass to have to build the 32-bit version all the time - but customers used and relied on it.
    - Aloha 8y ago
      And the technical reason is you cant run NTVDM when the processor is in long mode, because Virtual 8086 Mode cant be run from Long Mode.
      - slededit 8y ago
        I always thought that was a bullshit excuse. They could have emulated it. Its not like 16-bit apps are on the bleeding edge of performance. Still nobody else is supporting 16-bit applications at all anymore so you have to give them credit.
        wernercd 8y ago
        > they could have emulated it What's the cost/benefit of that? How much would it cost to build it and how much could they make? You can theoretically do ANYTHING... but a business exists to make money... Why does Microsoft support 16bit? because - without a doubt - someone is paying them for that "extra" support.
irrational 8y ago
And then there are things like IE6 that they didn't abandon soon enough.
nitwit005 8y ago
But they generally still function right? They're just not "the way you should do it anymore".
gumby 8y ago
> I struggle to understand why people think MS deserves enterprise trust & goodwill. I don't like MS (so am not trying to defend them from a partisan PoV) but I believe most of their revenues still come from enterprise, and I think enterprise customers don't encounter the same level of problems.
jmontano 8y ago
I guess enterprise trust them because they speak the same language. Also under Nadella's lead Microsoft has shown it can eat it's own dog food and turn it into profit. Turning from a software house into a full cloud business, the so called "digital transformation". Most of their customers see that and wanna follow the same path.
cjhanks 8y ago
I am not often a Windows programmer, but I followed that saga. I think it was the result of poor internal communication and was fairly anomalous for Microsoft.

sfifs 8y ago

Because businesses fundamentally run on Outlook and Office and support for that has been pretty amazingly consistent. Yes I've seen SharePoints and Skydrives and OneDrives and Yammers but none of them are critical the way Office and Outlook are

brazzledazzle 8y ago
They burned people with their original on-prem OneDrive bullshit.
MisterTea 8y ago
You can also add Active Directory to that list. Stupid simple to setup, join machines and setup policies. Small businesses with tens of pc's are easily managed from a single domain controller and the licensing isn't that bad when you're revenue easily covers costs. Oh, and Office 365 is a blessing. I never thought I'd actually like SaaS anything from Microsoft but it works really well Office. It's also much easier than selling a $6000+ purchase req for 15-20 new office licenses. Especially when the boss doesn't see why office 2003 is obsolete in 2011 if it "still works fine for me". ~$240 a month was an easy sell with "free" exchange email and upgrades. Yea small shops are fun to work at.

paulryanrogers 8y ago

Like GDI? (Honest question, not much of a graphics coder myself)

AlexeyBrin 8y ago
You can use GDI and GDI+ on Windows 10 from VS 2017 without a problem.
- VikingCoder 8y ago
  This is like patents expiring. By the time the patent expires, it's not valuable any more, because the new stuff is superior. In the MS land, I get to completely rewrite my app, because I need the new hotness, which doesn't work with the old API.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    That's because the new hotness is often outright not possible to fit within the constraints of the old API. It's the same on all platforms, really. The difference is that on Windows, you can choose to not chase the new hotness if you don't actually need it. E.g. there are still people writing WinForms and even MFC apps, because it works for them, and they don't need anything flashy. And that is a fully supported scenario - not just running the old stuff on new platforms, but even writing new code that uses the old frameworks in the latest-and-greatest Visual Studio.
- dman 8y ago
  If GDI broke there would be a riot in financial firms.

shittyadmin 8y ago

> I can't even tell you how many connectivity and graphics technologies MS launched, I developed on, and then they abandoned. How many of these technologies still function on Windows 10? As far as I know many of their abandoned platforms are still fully functional. Even in Windows 10 you can still install 16-bit apps. They've always been dedicated to compatibility... try running a few year old app on a modern smartphone and you'll see the difference.

gruez 8y ago
>Windows 10 you can still install 16-bit apps what? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/896458/64-bit-versions-of-windows-do-not-support-16-bit-components-16-bit-pro https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/896458/64-bit-versi...
- slededit 8y ago
  They ship 32-bit versions still to support those people. As a former msft engineer it was a huge pain in the ass to have to build the 32-bit version all the time - but customers used and relied on it.
  - Aloha 8y ago
    And the technical reason is you cant run NTVDM when the processor is in long mode, because Virtual 8086 Mode cant be run from Long Mode.
    - slededit 8y ago
      I always thought that was a bullshit excuse. They could have emulated it. Its not like 16-bit apps are on the bleeding edge of performance. Still nobody else is supporting 16-bit applications at all anymore so you have to give them credit.
      - wernercd 8y ago
        > they could have emulated it What's the cost/benefit of that? How much would it cost to build it and how much could they make? You can theoretically do ANYTHING... but a business exists to make money... Why does Microsoft support 16bit? because - without a doubt - someone is paying them for that "extra" support.

irrational 8y ago

And then there are things like IE6 that they didn't abandon soon enough.

nitwit005 8y ago

But they generally still function right? They're just not "the way you should do it anymore".

gumby 8y ago

> I struggle to understand why people think MS deserves enterprise trust & goodwill. I don't like MS (so am not trying to defend them from a partisan PoV) but I believe most of their revenues still come from enterprise, and I think enterprise customers don't encounter the same level of problems.

jmontano 8y ago

I guess enterprise trust them because they speak the same language. Also under Nadella's lead Microsoft has shown it can eat it's own dog food and turn it into profit. Turning from a software house into a full cloud business, the so called "digital transformation". Most of their customers see that and wanna follow the same path.

cjhanks 8y ago

I am not often a Windows programmer, but I followed that saga. I think it was the result of poor internal communication and was fairly anomalous for Microsoft.