6 ms·

Product has their lifecycle. Nothing lives forever even for AWS/Azure. In GCP, if a product is GA, deprecation got announced ahead of time and customers got no

Product has their lifecycle. Nothing lives forever even for AWS/Azure. In GCP, if a product is GA, deprecation got announced ahead of time and customers got notified and workarounds generally there. Enterprise products and consumer products are very different and subject to different terms. Please do not consider them as the same thing. (I really think that Google should name Google Cloud something else under Alphabet.)

ghayes 8y ago
I would add that AWS seems to moth-ball projects, where Google would officially announce an end-of-life. For example, I strongly regretted using AWS OpsWorks after I realized the only priority for AWS seemed to be keeping it running under SLA.
- Pxtl 8y ago
  If we're going to talk about "mothball without formally announcing deprecation" Microsoft is pretty awful for that too. There are so many zombie libraries and frameworks and tools in the Microsoft family, and they never have the decency to say "stop using that". Even windows.forms was default in visual studio until like 2013 or so.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Windows Forms were also the only sensible option until at least 2014. Only after 2014 Microsoft has fully commited to one solution, before that it was very wild.
    - thrower123 8y ago
      What is that solution? You're not talking about UWP, in it's myriad and shifting incarnations, are you?
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        To be honest I don't have much insight anymore, I left the .NET space around 2015 for these exact reasons.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    I'm convinced that as long as there is a Windows operating system based on the Win32 API, WinForms cannot die. It's still the nicest and most productive way to build GUI apps I've seen. Maybe not the prettiest, but it just works.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Not only will it not die, they are porting it over to .Net Core - Windows only.
    - ygra 8y ago
      You should definitely give WPF a try. At least for me Windows Forms is way less productive and nice.
    - momofarm 8y ago
      ever try QT or popular CEF based (actually, web-based) solution? actually, I'm wondering at current moment, what's the choice of framework / OS to make a productive GUI? or just fire those claimed-designer guy (probally your boss) let engineer do there job?
      - thrower123 8y ago
        Front-end web development of all stripes can burn in a fire, in my opinion; it's got the complication bug, and there's no cure. Unfortunately that's not going to happen, because worse is better, so here we are. QT looks interesting, if I ever had to care about supporting Linux, but that's not my world.
        momofarm 8y ago
        or how about let's go retro for all, try use command line / ncurse! (.....And of course get cursed by your manager and boss)
  - benaadams 8y ago
    > Even windows.forms was default in visual studio until like 2013 or so. They are also bringing WinForms and WPF forward to work on .NET Core 3.0; and its still supported https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on-net-core-3-0-and-net-framework-4-8/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on...
cperciva 8y ago
Nothing lives forever even for AWS/Azure. Maybe not forever, but some things do live for a very long time. Amazon SimpleDB has been deprecated for over 5 years and Amazon works hard to discourage people from using it in any new applications... but it's still available and will continue to be available for the foreseeable future.
- scarface74 8y ago
  And if you have a really old account you can still use an instance outside of a VPC. I’ve never heard of any service that AWS has just outright abandoned.
  - kenhwang 8y ago
    We have a really old account, we still create instances in classic to this day. Every now and then we get some really bizarre problems that could be attributed to "account is ancient".
  - mooreds 8y ago
    I used to teach AWS courses and had the same experience. I haven't heard of any service that has been disabled for an existing account. Yes, you are strongly discouraged from using some services (simple db) by them hiding it. Yes, new accounts can't use certain services (ec2 classic). Yes, some old features cost more than newer better features (rrs s3). But I wasn't able to point to any AWS service that had been shut down.
    - mooreds 8y ago
      BTW, if someone can, would love to hear about it. Also, to be fair, I don't know of any Google Cloud Service that has been shut down (as opposed to consumer facing Google services), but haven't been paying as much attention to that service.
spiritcat 8y ago
> Enterprise products and consumer products are very different and subject to different terms. Please do not consider them as the same thing. Now watch as i consider them the same thing. Personal anecdote: I had some basic question about their usage policy/pricing for one of their api's that was unclear in the docs. To get it answered by a real person was basically impossible. Our company does have a support contract, but only the person who controls the account is able to contact them. So to answer my simple question about making sure our usage was in-line with policy I'd have to go bug the bosses boss to ask them to forward my question to support and play the telephone game back and forth trying to interpret the answers. Or try to contact sales since that's the only real person I could reach and have them answer my carefully and precisely worded question with a sales pitch. Though, fwiw, we have been continuing to move stuff to gcp/gke despite my annoyances, and I do generally hold a positive view of the product.

ghayes 8y ago

I would add that AWS seems to moth-ball projects, where Google would officially announce an end-of-life. For example, I strongly regretted using AWS OpsWorks after I realized the only priority for AWS seemed to be keeping it running under SLA.

Pxtl 8y ago
If we're going to talk about "mothball without formally announcing deprecation" Microsoft is pretty awful for that too. There are so many zombie libraries and frameworks and tools in the Microsoft family, and they never have the decency to say "stop using that". Even windows.forms was default in visual studio until like 2013 or so.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Windows Forms were also the only sensible option until at least 2014. Only after 2014 Microsoft has fully commited to one solution, before that it was very wild.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    What is that solution? You're not talking about UWP, in it's myriad and shifting incarnations, are you?
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      To be honest I don't have much insight anymore, I left the .NET space around 2015 for these exact reasons.
- thrower123 8y ago
  I'm convinced that as long as there is a Windows operating system based on the Win32 API, WinForms cannot die. It's still the nicest and most productive way to build GUI apps I've seen. Maybe not the prettiest, but it just works.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Not only will it not die, they are porting it over to .Net Core - Windows only.
  - ygra 8y ago
    You should definitely give WPF a try. At least for me Windows Forms is way less productive and nice.
  - momofarm 8y ago
    ever try QT or popular CEF based (actually, web-based) solution? actually, I'm wondering at current moment, what's the choice of framework / OS to make a productive GUI? or just fire those claimed-designer guy (probally your boss) let engineer do there job?
    - thrower123 8y ago
      Front-end web development of all stripes can burn in a fire, in my opinion; it's got the complication bug, and there's no cure. Unfortunately that's not going to happen, because worse is better, so here we are. QT looks interesting, if I ever had to care about supporting Linux, but that's not my world.
      - momofarm 8y ago
        or how about let's go retro for all, try use command line / ncurse! (.....And of course get cursed by your manager and boss)
- benaadams 8y ago
  > Even windows.forms was default in visual studio until like 2013 or so. They are also bringing WinForms and WPF forward to work on .NET Core 3.0; and its still supported https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on-net-core-3-0-and-net-framework-4-8/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on...

cperciva 8y ago

Nothing lives forever even for AWS/Azure. Maybe not forever, but some things do live for a very long time. Amazon SimpleDB has been deprecated for over 5 years and Amazon works hard to discourage people from using it in any new applications... but it's still available and will continue to be available for the foreseeable future.

scarface74 8y ago
And if you have a really old account you can still use an instance outside of a VPC. I’ve never heard of any service that AWS has just outright abandoned.
- kenhwang 8y ago
  We have a really old account, we still create instances in classic to this day. Every now and then we get some really bizarre problems that could be attributed to "account is ancient".
- mooreds 8y ago
  I used to teach AWS courses and had the same experience. I haven't heard of any service that has been disabled for an existing account. Yes, you are strongly discouraged from using some services (simple db) by them hiding it. Yes, new accounts can't use certain services (ec2 classic). Yes, some old features cost more than newer better features (rrs s3). But I wasn't able to point to any AWS service that had been shut down.
  - mooreds 8y ago
    BTW, if someone can, would love to hear about it. Also, to be fair, I don't know of any Google Cloud Service that has been shut down (as opposed to consumer facing Google services), but haven't been paying as much attention to that service.

spiritcat 8y ago

> Enterprise products and consumer products are very different and subject to different terms. Please do not consider them as the same thing. Now watch as i consider them the same thing. Personal anecdote: I had some basic question about their usage policy/pricing for one of their api's that was unclear in the docs. To get it answered by a real person was basically impossible. Our company does have a support contract, but only the person who controls the account is able to contact them. So to answer my simple question about making sure our usage was in-line with policy I'd have to go bug the bosses boss to ask them to forward my question to support and play the telephone game back and forth trying to interpret the answers. Or try to contact sales since that's the only real person I could reach and have them answer my carefully and precisely worded question with a sales pitch. Though, fwiw, we have been continuing to move stuff to gcp/gke despite my annoyances, and I do generally hold a positive view of the product.