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Perhaps the citizens should object, I hear one of their congress critters is shitposting on twitter to that end. If the locals don't want their lives upended by

Perhaps the citizens should object, I hear one of their congress critters is shitposting on twitter to that end. If the locals don't want their lives upended by gentrification, Berlin has shown a good example of how to block uninvited expansion by tech giants: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45971538 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45971538

chrisseaton 8y ago
> Perhaps the citizens should object Perhaps they like the idea?
- metildaa 8y ago
  Don't presume consent or support based on lack of vocal opposition. Queens isn't as high income as Seattle or the part of Virginia that Amazon is in, and the people who live there may just be making ends meet, not paying attention to how gentrification of their neighborhood may eject them from it.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > Don't presume consent or support based on lack of vocal opposition. Seems better than presuming lack of consent and lack of support based on lack of vocal opposition?
  - magic_beans 8y ago
    Typical Rent in LIC is around $3200 for a 1-bedroom. It's an extremely high-income neighborhood in Queens. Go a little farther down the 7 and you start to see some of the middle class, but they're not really in LIC.
cycrutchfield 8y ago
They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument.
- TillE 8y ago
  Conflating leftist anti-gentrification activists with property owners worried about their property value all under the label "NIMBY"...it's unhelpful in understanding the world.
  - cycrutchfield 8y ago
    NIMBY = Not In My BackYard. I'd say it's a pretty accurate description of both groups.
- metildaa 8y ago
  > They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. It seems you didn't read my prior comment, some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in. > Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument. It shows how a community can fight back. Much of the change mega-corps bring to the neighborhoods and cities they set up shop in is not good, current locals definitely have a right to reject.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in The opposition to an almost-done deal is almost always louder than the support. Supporters want to keep the status quo, i.e. the deal closing. Opposers want to stop it. I think this is a good deal. I prefer having Amazon in New York, and I prefer the billions of extra tax dollars they're going to pay New York City and Albany versus potentially losing those dollars to another city, state or country. I'm not making a lot of noise because I think the Mayor and Governor have it handled. TL; DR I don't think one can assume popular opposition to this deal.
    - Apocryphon 8y ago
      Probably the best way to gauge the support/opposition was to put this deal into a city-wide referendum to begin with.
umanwizard 8y ago
Isn't freedom great? Berlin can decide it doesn't want tech expansion, and New York can decide it does.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
  "Berlin" as in the people who lived there decided it did want tech expansion. "New York" as in its politicians dealing in backrooms decided it did want tech expansion. Those are different things.
Krasnol 8y ago
It's not clear yet if the go elsewhere in Berlin. The last location I've read about was the former Stasi Headquarter (seriously) ;)
- metildaa 8y ago
  Hah, that would be fitting! Optimizing the data mines from within the same building where data was used to expedite the killing of so many.
jondubois 8y ago
To summarize the article: The government is using taxpayer money to pay a corporation to help enslave taxpayers and that's a good thing apparently.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mancerayder 8y ago
Long Island City was already rezoned, luxury housing built and gentrified. 20k workers in a city of 8.5m isn't upending a small, vulnerable community. And we're not the commuter suburbs, an office in Long Island City is not very much different from an office building in Manhattan. Gentrification concerns are thus overblown, and our local pols are known for dramatizations like these for political gain (at least on camera/Twitter, less so when it comes to campaign support and backroom lobbying deals). The controversy is in the tax incentives primarily.
commandlinefan 8y ago
I'm not sure what they're complaining about - they keep electing representatives who promise high taxes. Now they're getting high taxes, they should be happy?
- longerthoughts 8y ago
  Willingess to pay higher taxes doesn't translate to "supportive of any conveivable use of the tax revenue". I'm happy to pay my taxes for certain uses but am still entitled to complain if my elected officials use tax revenue to fill a room with gold coins and swim around in it like Scrooge McDuck.

chrisseaton 8y ago

> Perhaps the citizens should object Perhaps they like the idea?

metildaa 8y ago
Don't presume consent or support based on lack of vocal opposition. Queens isn't as high income as Seattle or the part of Virginia that Amazon is in, and the people who live there may just be making ends meet, not paying attention to how gentrification of their neighborhood may eject them from it.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > Don't presume consent or support based on lack of vocal opposition. Seems better than presuming lack of consent and lack of support based on lack of vocal opposition?
- magic_beans 8y ago
  Typical Rent in LIC is around $3200 for a 1-bedroom. It's an extremely high-income neighborhood in Queens. Go a little farther down the 7 and you start to see some of the middle class, but they're not really in LIC.

cycrutchfield 8y ago

They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument.

TillE 8y ago
Conflating leftist anti-gentrification activists with property owners worried about their property value all under the label "NIMBY"...it's unhelpful in understanding the world.
- cycrutchfield 8y ago
  NIMBY = Not In My BackYard. I'd say it's a pretty accurate description of both groups.
metildaa 8y ago
> They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. It seems you didn't read my prior comment, some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in. > Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument. It shows how a community can fight back. Much of the change mega-corps bring to the neighborhoods and cities they set up shop in is not good, current locals definitely have a right to reject.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in The opposition to an almost-done deal is almost always louder than the support. Supporters want to keep the status quo, i.e. the deal closing. Opposers want to stop it. I think this is a good deal. I prefer having Amazon in New York, and I prefer the billions of extra tax dollars they're going to pay New York City and Albany versus potentially losing those dollars to another city, state or country. I'm not making a lot of noise because I think the Mayor and Governor have it handled. TL; DR I don't think one can assume popular opposition to this deal.
  - Apocryphon 8y ago
    Probably the best way to gauge the support/opposition was to put this deal into a city-wide referendum to begin with.

umanwizard 8y ago

Isn't freedom great? Berlin can decide it doesn't want tech expansion, and New York can decide it does.

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
"Berlin" as in the people who lived there decided it did want tech expansion. "New York" as in its politicians dealing in backrooms decided it did want tech expansion. Those are different things.

Krasnol 8y ago

It's not clear yet if the go elsewhere in Berlin. The last location I've read about was the former Stasi Headquarter (seriously) ;)

metildaa 8y ago
Hah, that would be fitting! Optimizing the data mines from within the same building where data was used to expedite the killing of so many.

jondubois 8y ago

To summarize the article: The government is using taxpayer money to pay a corporation to help enslave taxpayers and that's a good thing apparently.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mancerayder 8y ago

Long Island City was already rezoned, luxury housing built and gentrified. 20k workers in a city of 8.5m isn't upending a small, vulnerable community. And we're not the commuter suburbs, an office in Long Island City is not very much different from an office building in Manhattan. Gentrification concerns are thus overblown, and our local pols are known for dramatizations like these for political gain (at least on camera/Twitter, less so when it comes to campaign support and backroom lobbying deals). The controversy is in the tax incentives primarily.

commandlinefan 8y ago

I'm not sure what they're complaining about - they keep electing representatives who promise high taxes. Now they're getting high taxes, they should be happy?

longerthoughts 8y ago
Willingess to pay higher taxes doesn't translate to "supportive of any conveivable use of the tax revenue". I'm happy to pay my taxes for certain uses but am still entitled to complain if my elected officials use tax revenue to fill a room with gold coins and swim around in it like Scrooge McDuck.