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> I want discussion, reason, and persuasion to be used to > solve society's ills; you want the gun. What do you do with criminals in your utopia? Discuss the

by joeyo 16y ago

> I want discussion, reason, and persuasion to be used to > solve society's ills; you want the gun. What do you do with criminals in your utopia? Discuss their crimes with them and persuade them to pay restitution?

dualogy 16y ago
Retaliate by the same natural right to your own person that forbids you to initiate force against others.
- macrael 16y ago
  So, kill them? How do you decide if that is justified? If you have evidence that a man robbed you, are you allowed to seek him out and steal back what was taken from you? What if he ate it? To kill him? How does the society know that you found the right man? What if you got it wrong? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
  - dualogy 16y ago
    So many books have been written about this. If you are genuinely curious, read The Production of Security (and justice is covered too) and other Rothbard or Hoppe writings. Joe Civilian will likely seek out producers of police services and insurance services (rather than rely on his own daily gang fights), both of which will out of self-interest police each other against abusive behavior, and private courts of law have often worked exceedingly well in the short spans of history where they were permitted by oversight or accident.
monos 16y ago
> Discuss their crimes with them and persuade them > to pay restitution? Why restitution? In some cases - violent crimes - any amount of money would not be enough. Punishment has no positive effect for society. Discussing and admitting the crimes would help the victim and be cheaper. In our current law system the victim, who is the one we should pay most attention to, is mostly ignored. For more on this controversial standpoint read up on how Tutsi & Hutu learnt to live together after the genocide. or: When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/0691148643 http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/0691148643

by joeyo 16y ago

dualogy 16y ago

Retaliate by the same natural right to your own person that forbids you to initiate force against others.

macrael 16y ago
So, kill them? How do you decide if that is justified? If you have evidence that a man robbed you, are you allowed to seek him out and steal back what was taken from you? What if he ate it? To kill him? How does the society know that you found the right man? What if you got it wrong? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
- dualogy 16y ago
  So many books have been written about this. If you are genuinely curious, read The Production of Security (and justice is covered too) and other Rothbard or Hoppe writings. Joe Civilian will likely seek out producers of police services and insurance services (rather than rely on his own daily gang fights), both of which will out of self-interest police each other against abusive behavior, and private courts of law have often worked exceedingly well in the short spans of history where they were permitted by oversight or accident.

monos 16y ago

> Discuss their crimes with them and persuade them > to pay restitution? Why restitution? In some cases - violent crimes - any amount of money would not be enough. Punishment has no positive effect for society. Discussing and admitting the crimes would help the victim and be cheaper. In our current law system the victim, who is the one we should pay most attention to, is mostly ignored. For more on this controversial standpoint read up on how Tutsi & Hutu learnt to live together after the genocide. or: When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/0691148643 http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/0691148643