4 ms·

This strikes me as ridiculous fear mongering. The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" - the idea being that illegal immigrants will leave Arizo

by defen 16y ago

This strikes me as ridiculous fear mongering. The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" - the idea being that illegal immigrants will leave Arizona if they see that the state is serious about enforcing immigration law. Are we to suppose that people will continue to live in Arizona illegally, given the knowledge that there are now real penalties? The article also uses scare language like "The law could send hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to prison in a way never done before" to make it sound like there's some grand plan to hunt down and lock up every illegal immigrant, so that the prison companies can charge the state for their upkeep. And yet the bill only provides for a maximum of 20 days in jail for a first offender, and 30 days in jail for subsequent offenses.

anigbrowl 16y ago
I think you should double check that. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070p.htm http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070p.htm http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-702.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-702.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-703.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-703.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-707.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-707.html
- defen 16y ago
  I did, actually. Arizona SB 1070 was superseded by SB 2162: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/hb2162c.htm http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg...
  - anigbrowl 16y ago
    Well, the story is about what was in the bill as allegedly drafted by the the prison company, not about the watered-down version that ended up passing. As first submitted to the legislature, it would have allowed for much longer sentences.
credo 16y ago
>>The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" It is much more than that. If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". Now, I'm sure many citizens feel that their accent or their skin color or some other attribute protects them from sent to jail and that they don't need to carry their papers with them. However, if a cop thinks that you might be a Canadian, they could throw you in jail for not proving otherwise. .
- kjhgfkjmhng 16y ago
  Presumably only blacks and native americans are safe?
- firemanx 16y ago
  Do you have a reference for citizens being able to be sent to jail for not carrying papers? I was under the impression that there was nothing in the bill about putting people in jail. I haven't read the link yet, though, so perhaps it has more details.
  - Natsu 16y ago
    Even before this law was passed, I can give you citations for American citizens who have actually been deported. I can't see how this law will make deportation any less likely. Here are some of the first few results: * http://www.care2.com/causes/human-rights/blog/mentally-disabled-u-s-citizen-deported/ http://www.care2.com/causes/human-rights/blog/mentally-disab... * http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/report_hundreds_of_us_citizens.html http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/report_hundre... You may notice a common trend among those wrongly deported: they're most often mentally disabled and non-white. It makes the news if and when their family discovers what happened to them. You don't have a right to an attorney if accused of immigration violations (even if you are a US citizen). I don't believe that a native-born US citizen can be stripped of their citizenship via any means. However, there are ways for naturalized citizens (those born elsewhere who successfully apply for US citizenship) to be stripped of that citizenship after the fact. This usually happens if they lie on their application (and that is the reason they ask questions like "Are you a terrorist?" on that application). There's a discussion of how that works here: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/376038 http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/376038
butterfi 16y ago
"But instead of taking his idea to the Arizona statehouse floor, Pearce first took it to a hotel conference room. It was last December at the Grand Hyatt in Washington, D.C. Inside, there was a meeting of a secretive group called the American Legislative Exchange Council. Insiders call it ALEC. It's a membership organization of state legislators and powerful corporations and associations, such as the tobacco company Reynolds American Inc., ExxonMobil and the National Rifle Association. Another member is the billion-dollar Corrections Corporation of America — the largest private prison company in the country. It was there that Pearce's idea took shape. "I did a presentation," Pearce said. "I went through the facts. I went through the impacts and they said, 'Yeah.'" This isn't just about illegal immigrants, this is about corporations that get legislation passed for their own financial gain. Granted this happens all the time, but this is so blatantly targeted towards people who have little or no defense. The potential for abuse is obvious. We've already had a U.S. judge busted for receiving kick-backs for sending juveniles to a youth facility. The US already has one of the largest prison populations in the world. This is a crime against humanity in the making. We should be afraid.
JohnnyBrown 16y ago
The frightening thing is not this particular application, but the broader concepts of (1) extension of an already draconian police power (2) almost entirely brought about by a private profit motive. Capitalism is an evolutionary process and as such is almost beyond the control of human intentions, so seeing it move against individual liberty is highly alarming.
- hnal943 16y ago
  Whose liberty is being restricted? Illegal immigrants do not have rights to remain in this country.

by defen 16y ago

anigbrowl 16y ago

I think you should double check that. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070p.htm http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070p.htm http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-702.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-702.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-703.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-703.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-707.html http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/2010/title13/13-707.html

defen 16y ago
I did, actually. Arizona SB 1070 was superseded by SB 2162: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/hb2162c.htm http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg...
- anigbrowl 16y ago
  Well, the story is about what was in the bill as allegedly drafted by the the prison company, not about the watered-down version that ended up passing. As first submitted to the legislature, it would have allowed for much longer sentences.

credo 16y ago

>>The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" It is much more than that. If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". Now, I'm sure many citizens feel that their accent or their skin color or some other attribute protects them from sent to jail and that they don't need to carry their papers with them. However, if a cop thinks that you might be a Canadian, they could throw you in jail for not proving otherwise. .

kjhgfkjmhng 16y ago
Presumably only blacks and native americans are safe?
firemanx 16y ago
Do you have a reference for citizens being able to be sent to jail for not carrying papers? I was under the impression that there was nothing in the bill about putting people in jail. I haven't read the link yet, though, so perhaps it has more details.
- Natsu 16y ago
  Even before this law was passed, I can give you citations for American citizens who have actually been deported. I can't see how this law will make deportation any less likely. Here are some of the first few results: * http://www.care2.com/causes/human-rights/blog/mentally-disabled-u-s-citizen-deported/ http://www.care2.com/causes/human-rights/blog/mentally-disab... * http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/report_hundreds_of_us_citizens.html http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/report_hundre... You may notice a common trend among those wrongly deported: they're most often mentally disabled and non-white. It makes the news if and when their family discovers what happened to them. You don't have a right to an attorney if accused of immigration violations (even if you are a US citizen). I don't believe that a native-born US citizen can be stripped of their citizenship via any means. However, there are ways for naturalized citizens (those born elsewhere who successfully apply for US citizenship) to be stripped of that citizenship after the fact. This usually happens if they lie on their application (and that is the reason they ask questions like "Are you a terrorist?" on that application). There's a discussion of how that works here: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/376038 http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/376038

butterfi 16y ago

"But instead of taking his idea to the Arizona statehouse floor, Pearce first took it to a hotel conference room. It was last December at the Grand Hyatt in Washington, D.C. Inside, there was a meeting of a secretive group called the American Legislative Exchange Council. Insiders call it ALEC. It's a membership organization of state legislators and powerful corporations and associations, such as the tobacco company Reynolds American Inc., ExxonMobil and the National Rifle Association. Another member is the billion-dollar Corrections Corporation of America — the largest private prison company in the country. It was there that Pearce's idea took shape. "I did a presentation," Pearce said. "I went through the facts. I went through the impacts and they said, 'Yeah.'" This isn't just about illegal immigrants, this is about corporations that get legislation passed for their own financial gain. Granted this happens all the time, but this is so blatantly targeted towards people who have little or no defense. The potential for abuse is obvious. We've already had a U.S. judge busted for receiving kick-backs for sending juveniles to a youth facility. The US already has one of the largest prison populations in the world. This is a crime against humanity in the making. We should be afraid.

JohnnyBrown 16y ago

The frightening thing is not this particular application, but the broader concepts of (1) extension of an already draconian police power (2) almost entirely brought about by a private profit motive. Capitalism is an evolutionary process and as such is almost beyond the control of human intentions, so seeing it move against individual liberty is highly alarming.

hnal943 16y ago
Whose liberty is being restricted? Illegal immigrants do not have rights to remain in this country.