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Please no. > The technology Daquin and colleagues learned about in Shenzhen underpinned what would become China’s “Social Credit System.” The still-evolving sy

Please no. > The technology Daquin and colleagues learned about in Shenzhen underpinned what would become China’s “Social Credit System.” The still-evolving system, part of which uses “smart citizen cards” developed by ZTE, grades citizens based on behavior including financial solvency and political activity. Good behavior can earn citizens discounts on utilities or loans. Bad marks can get them banned from public transport or their kids blocked from top schools.

kossae 8y ago
Here is a good PM podcast episode on the 'Social Credit System' as well for some further information: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/10/09/655921710/chinas-social-credit-system https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/10/09/655921710/chin...
2RTZZSro 8y ago
> Good behavior can earn citizens discounts on utilities or loans. Bad marks can get them banned from public transport or their kids blocked from top schools. Whatever it takes to herd the cattle. "First they came ..." is a poem written by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt and responsibility. The best-known versions of the speech are the poems that began circulating by the 1950s.[1] The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum quotes the following text as one of the many poetic versions of the speech:[2][3] First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
- throw2016 8y ago
  How is this different from credit scores?
  - metildaa 8y ago
    Credit scores are also a non-consentual rating that a bit more than half of Americans have. Just because it exists doesn't make it just or right, consent was never requested or considered. Worse yet, credit scores are weak proxies for their primary duty (rating whether someone is likely to default on a loan) and are based on SSNs issued by the IRS, who (from my reading) is not working with the credit bureas to ensure accuracy of SSNs to names/addresses.
    - gcb0 8y ago
      it seems you two are agreeing.
  - jmalicki 8y ago
    Credit scores aren't based on your political activity or used to deny you from boarding transit.
    - est 8y ago
      China didn't ban all the transit boarding for those with low credit, just planes and first class HSR. You can take the normal train, which is still quicker than most countries. No planes though. Planes are considered a luxury.
      - 2RTZZSro 8y ago
        In May, enforcement of China’s social credit system spread to the travel industry, restricting millions of Chinese citizens with low social credit scores from purchasing plane and train tickets. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2018/06/18/chinas-social-credit-system-spreads-to-more-daily-transactions/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2018/06/18/chinas-so...
zaru27 8y ago
I'm not religious, but it's hard to ignore the comparison: "Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name." Maybe they were onto something?
- dgut 8y ago
  Don't you know that quoting the Bible on HN causes great discomfort? For them, the book The 120 Days of Sodom is more palatable than the Bible! What were you thinking?
  - te_chris 8y ago
    You must be fun at parties
    - zaru27 8y ago
      To be fair, he's probably more fun at parties than the socially-challenged antifa squad downvoting me
      - dang 8y ago
        We've banned this account for ideological battle, flamewars and trolling—the trifecta of what this site is not for.
    - dang 8y ago
      Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - te_chris 8y ago
        Sorry, point taken.
  - 8y ago
robertsd247 8y ago
So...when does this get implemented here in the US?

kossae 8y ago

Here is a good PM podcast episode on the 'Social Credit System' as well for some further information: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/10/09/655921710/chinas-social-credit-system https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/10/09/655921710/chin...

2RTZZSro 8y ago

> Good behavior can earn citizens discounts on utilities or loans. Bad marks can get them banned from public transport or their kids blocked from top schools. Whatever it takes to herd the cattle. "First they came ..." is a poem written by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt and responsibility. The best-known versions of the speech are the poems that began circulating by the 1950s.[1] The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum quotes the following text as one of the many poetic versions of the speech:[2][3] First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

throw2016 8y ago
How is this different from credit scores?
- metildaa 8y ago
  Credit scores are also a non-consentual rating that a bit more than half of Americans have. Just because it exists doesn't make it just or right, consent was never requested or considered. Worse yet, credit scores are weak proxies for their primary duty (rating whether someone is likely to default on a loan) and are based on SSNs issued by the IRS, who (from my reading) is not working with the credit bureas to ensure accuracy of SSNs to names/addresses.
  - gcb0 8y ago
    it seems you two are agreeing.
- jmalicki 8y ago
  Credit scores aren't based on your political activity or used to deny you from boarding transit.
  - est 8y ago
    China didn't ban all the transit boarding for those with low credit, just planes and first class HSR. You can take the normal train, which is still quicker than most countries. No planes though. Planes are considered a luxury.
    - 2RTZZSro 8y ago
      In May, enforcement of China’s social credit system spread to the travel industry, restricting millions of Chinese citizens with low social credit scores from purchasing plane and train tickets. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2018/06/18/chinas-social-credit-system-spreads-to-more-daily-transactions/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2018/06/18/chinas-so...

zaru27 8y ago

I'm not religious, but it's hard to ignore the comparison: "Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name." Maybe they were onto something?

dgut 8y ago
Don't you know that quoting the Bible on HN causes great discomfort? For them, the book The 120 Days of Sodom is more palatable than the Bible! What were you thinking?
- te_chris 8y ago
  You must be fun at parties
  - zaru27 8y ago
    To be fair, he's probably more fun at parties than the socially-challenged antifa squad downvoting me
    - dang 8y ago
      We've banned this account for ideological battle, flamewars and trolling—the trifecta of what this site is not for.
  - dang 8y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - te_chris 8y ago
      Sorry, point taken.
- 8y ago

robertsd247 8y ago

So...when does this get implemented here in the US?