9 ms·

I was homeless in Silicon Valley many years ago. There were a lot of ‘us’. We stayed hidden in the woods, bathed often, and dressed impeccably in public. Some h

by jl2718 8y ago

I was homeless in Silicon Valley many years ago. There were a lot of ‘us’. We stayed hidden in the woods, bathed often, and dressed impeccably in public. Some had jobs. Some were grad students. Several couples. There were no drugs, alcohol, beggars, or thieves out there. $5/day was enough. It was hard physically, but very spiritual, financially free, and altogether one of the best times of my life. Today it’s too dangerous. There are way too many criminals and addicts on the street. There’s nothing worse for a good person who has fallen on hard times than a policy that is lenient on crimes, drug use, public consumption, and public nuisance of the homeless. You can walk away and lock the door. They can’t. Just imagine yourself out there being victimized by bad people only because rich people feel guilty for them. For them. The one that just mugged you for their next high, or worse. Guilt for them. Good luck, kid.

ilikehurdles 8y ago
This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.
- post_break 8y ago
  Do you think it has to do with generating income? Like if someone is homeless the odds of getting them to pay a fine is next to nothing. But snag a guy walking out of a bar pissing on the wall you're going to get some money out of it.
  - smileysteve 8y ago
    Probably as much to do with the revolving door as it does with generating income. If you have a home / money, a fine or brief jail time are punishment. If you don't have home / money, you won't pay a fine, your time and lack of freedom won't solve an addiction brought on by being desolate. So, a month later, a cop has wasted hours, a judge has wasted hours, and the "criminal" still can't pay the fine, is still addicted, and will waste that same time again. tldr; A fine of $50 for someone who doesn't have money to eat is in ways as inconceivable as a $1bln fine to someone in the middle class.
    - post_break 8y ago
      Sorry I don't understand your comment?
      - smileysteve 8y ago
        The purpose of a fine for doing something illegal is supposed to be corrective. If a person can not pay the fine, if they're not further inconvenienced by being arrested and sent to hours until jail; the effective corrective action is being applied to the judge, police; They can arrest the same homeless, mentally ill, drug addicted person each day; or put them in prison where they don't belong -- or they can fine/arrest violent offenders or people who are "corrected" by a jail time or fine.
        rbanffy 8y ago
        It's a good point. Punishment in the form of losing something does not work on someone who lost everything.
        smileysteve 8y ago
        You're correct. deterrent is the correct word.
        clairity 8y ago
        > "The purpose of a fine for doing something illegal is supposed to be corrective." that's almost certainly not true. a fine is primarily a deterrent, and failing that, is punitive. it's not corrective (or restorative), because it doesn't "correct" anything. an example of corrective action is a burglar being required to return/replace stolen items.
        paulgrant999 8y ago
        s/deterrant/punitive/corrective/coercive/g. fixed that for you.
        8y ago
- kakarot 8y ago
  This is a complicated issue because the Drug War is inherently discriminatory, and asking for our government to enforce these laws will always lead to discriminatory practices. All of the other issues definitely need to be addressed, however.
  - RobertRoberts 8y ago
    I was homeless as a teen for a short time. I guarantee you that there are moral/ethical homeless people that don't steal or attack people. (even when high) So, I can say wholeheartedly it's not discriminatory against homeless or the disaffected, it's discriminates based on behaviour. Period. If law breaking behaviour (theft, assault, etc...) exists most prominently in addicted homeless people, that shouldn't be surprising nor ignored. And it certainly shouldn't negate the laws of the land.
    - marnett 8y ago
      It's discriminatory against the poor, not the homeless
      - RobertRoberts 8y ago
        I've been poor most of my life. It's not discriminatory against the poor at all. I lived in a van with my wife, and we didn't steal. There were people in the parks that would steal, and the police would come after them, not us. I speak from life experience. You are helping spread a deadly lie. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go be genuinely poor, it's really easy to do. Just use a tiny amount of money to live off of. And see if it causes you to commit crimes. Move to a single room apartment, or be homeless. It does not make you immoral or unethical or cause you to mug people or steal.
        bllguo 8y ago
        You seem to be taking this personally. I don't see how your personal experiences address the claim that the poor are disproportionately inclined to commit petty crimes
- hithereagain 8y ago
  In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
  - Natsu 8y ago
    That doesn't respond to the 'public safety issues' the GP was discussing. Being on the streets is a spectrum of bad luck and bad choices. Yes, that means there are generally examples of people who are mostly one or mostly the other and plenty in between. Usually what happens is a few things go wrong at the same time from either category and life spirals out of control. The problem is that it's hard to get people back on their feet again and the criminal justice system is quite terrible at it in general, but that doesn't mean that people never learning that there are consequences for their actions is a good thing, either. Part of the problem is that various criminal societies have developed and need to be dismantled so as not to self-perpetuate the harm they cause to others.
D_Guidi 8y ago
there was a documentary about this, seen on Italian TV (English doc with subs)
agumonkey 8y ago
Would it be ok if I ask you about this in details ?
pizzazzaro 8y ago
That sounds like a nice hippy colony you had there. My experience was different. Winter kills people. Summer kills people. Have your shelter from the elements planned, or you wont make it. The Homeless Shelter doesnt have the resources to help you all day. And they only let everyone sleep on the floor for the coldest 3 months of the year, when Christmas donations make feeding everyone ONE meal possible. When that runs out, or by county statute, you're on your own. There's always someone that keeps the light-sleepers awake during those months. There's always someone bringing a virus in to that shelter. And there's always the one who needs to get voted off the island for everyone's safety - and sometimes he gets to stay, which keeps everyone awake except the security officer. Sometimes there's even the person who should be in a nursing home, but cant afford it and will defacate on theirself, and let it run down the floor. They can't help it, and we only get tapwater to clean it with. So you make other arrangements where you can. If you had your wits about you and enough resources, you could get by on a daily basis. Those "criminals" were just fellows looking for their next meal, same as me. I didnt bother them except as a "heads up," and they returned the favor in both ways. Same with cops - who, after enough analysis from this perspective became just another gang. The "heads up" I gave them were just of a different sort - fast food menus or coffee are things you'll have in common. Always have "normal" conversation ready for cops that isnt snitching - running & hiding only makes them chase, and you're going to have to walk near / with one eventually. Always smile and wave to the cop. I dont care if you have a kilo of coke in a trojan condom up your ass, wave to make the man with a gun think you're friendly when he simply drives past and ignores you. You want to be human but forgettable. And that's just the lay of the land - you better know them - cops, gangs, geography; be friendly rather than a nuisance around their turf. Even the hardest of them usually appreciates some manner reciprocity and a genuine nature from the lowest among us. Then again, I didnt have access to suits. So I looked homeless, even with as much of a job as I could keep. All my money went out the moment it came in - ITS DECEPTIVELY EXPENSIVE TO BE HOMELESS SAFELY. In order to not get picked up by the cops, I needed to move around A LOT. Friends - fellow "travellers" and otherwise make survival possible. Need a ride to get out of dodge? Need folk medicine to survive, need a meal? Better share, so you can be shared-with. And you usually dont wanna be known as homeless, just a "slob". At the same time most of those fellows in the same situation are going to be drains on your resources, not worthwhile investments of your time. Do you wanna eat, or just stare at someone else who's hungry until you punch each other? But you need to know that guy's name, have him like you enough to not try to steal from you. Need to see a doctor? Need a dentist, a shower, a hot meal that isnt convenience food or similar junk food served by a soup kitchen? You better have a job that makes these possible - if not, you're screwed. And thats rarely a ticket out to a liveable life. So every motherfucker has their lotto-ticket dream that they know is gonna work out. Emotionally, this keeps them alive. It doesnt matter what it is, or if its realistic. They're not gonna take "no" for an answer if they can help it, regarding that. This is how people fucking snap - they run out of ideas they think they can work. Or worse - they settle in, and accept their lives as the perpetually ignored. They can last for 30 years, but they usually dont make it through the next winter. Even cheap folk medicine became a terrible expense, and neglected health problems become untenable. This is what gets us all, eventually. And then someone steps in to help if you're lucky and young, after usually irreparable damage is done, and what's fixable costs a fortune. Local "assistance" agencies requiring folks to be homeless for a Full Year to qualify for any help made it worse. But then, requirements that folks have their last address within that county, and not leave the county to seek opportunities elsewhere? Just makes it worse. You get three hots and a cot - after trying and failing for a full year, tied down to the place you keep failing in. That year of failure breaks most people in some way. No, not everyone is entirely out of options. But so many of us kid ourselves - we turn it into a "choice," when it was really just the only way to escape an even worse situation of similar poverty - that was my story. I had kept the same job for years before, and through my time on the streets. It was the hardest time there, feeling ashamed around those people about my... "lifestyle". Its still painful to look back and see how I just... Changed. Dont get me wrong - I kinda miss parts of it. Getting off work and being free to play and code, to wander, to learn whats around me in a new spot to explore. The stargazing simple dates, and But hey. Tell me more about your bougie homelessness.

by jl2718 8y ago

ilikehurdles 8y ago

This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.

post_break 8y ago
Do you think it has to do with generating income? Like if someone is homeless the odds of getting them to pay a fine is next to nothing. But snag a guy walking out of a bar pissing on the wall you're going to get some money out of it.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  Probably as much to do with the revolving door as it does with generating income. If you have a home / money, a fine or brief jail time are punishment. If you don't have home / money, you won't pay a fine, your time and lack of freedom won't solve an addiction brought on by being desolate. So, a month later, a cop has wasted hours, a judge has wasted hours, and the "criminal" still can't pay the fine, is still addicted, and will waste that same time again. tldr; A fine of $50 for someone who doesn't have money to eat is in ways as inconceivable as a $1bln fine to someone in the middle class.
  - post_break 8y ago
    Sorry I don't understand your comment?
    - smileysteve 8y ago
      The purpose of a fine for doing something illegal is supposed to be corrective. If a person can not pay the fine, if they're not further inconvenienced by being arrested and sent to hours until jail; the effective corrective action is being applied to the judge, police; They can arrest the same homeless, mentally ill, drug addicted person each day; or put them in prison where they don't belong -- or they can fine/arrest violent offenders or people who are "corrected" by a jail time or fine.
      - rbanffy 8y ago
        It's a good point. Punishment in the form of losing something does not work on someone who lost everything.
        smileysteve 8y ago
        You're correct. deterrent is the correct word.
      - clairity 8y ago
        > "The purpose of a fine for doing something illegal is supposed to be corrective." that's almost certainly not true. a fine is primarily a deterrent, and failing that, is punitive. it's not corrective (or restorative), because it doesn't "correct" anything. an example of corrective action is a burglar being required to return/replace stolen items.
        paulgrant999 8y ago
        s/deterrant/punitive/corrective/coercive/g. fixed that for you.
        8y ago
kakarot 8y ago
This is a complicated issue because the Drug War is inherently discriminatory, and asking for our government to enforce these laws will always lead to discriminatory practices. All of the other issues definitely need to be addressed, however.
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  I was homeless as a teen for a short time. I guarantee you that there are moral/ethical homeless people that don't steal or attack people. (even when high) So, I can say wholeheartedly it's not discriminatory against homeless or the disaffected, it's discriminates based on behaviour. Period. If law breaking behaviour (theft, assault, etc...) exists most prominently in addicted homeless people, that shouldn't be surprising nor ignored. And it certainly shouldn't negate the laws of the land.
  - marnett 8y ago
    It's discriminatory against the poor, not the homeless
    - RobertRoberts 8y ago
      I've been poor most of my life. It's not discriminatory against the poor at all. I lived in a van with my wife, and we didn't steal. There were people in the parks that would steal, and the police would come after them, not us. I speak from life experience. You are helping spread a deadly lie. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go be genuinely poor, it's really easy to do. Just use a tiny amount of money to live off of. And see if it causes you to commit crimes. Move to a single room apartment, or be homeless. It does not make you immoral or unethical or cause you to mug people or steal.
      - bllguo 8y ago
        You seem to be taking this personally. I don't see how your personal experiences address the claim that the poor are disproportionately inclined to commit petty crimes
hithereagain 8y ago
In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
- Natsu 8y ago
  That doesn't respond to the 'public safety issues' the GP was discussing. Being on the streets is a spectrum of bad luck and bad choices. Yes, that means there are generally examples of people who are mostly one or mostly the other and plenty in between. Usually what happens is a few things go wrong at the same time from either category and life spirals out of control. The problem is that it's hard to get people back on their feet again and the criminal justice system is quite terrible at it in general, but that doesn't mean that people never learning that there are consequences for their actions is a good thing, either. Part of the problem is that various criminal societies have developed and need to be dismantled so as not to self-perpetuate the harm they cause to others.

D_Guidi 8y ago

there was a documentary about this, seen on Italian TV (English doc with subs)

agumonkey 8y ago

Would it be ok if I ask you about this in details ?

pizzazzaro 8y ago

That sounds like a nice hippy colony you had there. My experience was different. Winter kills people. Summer kills people. Have your shelter from the elements planned, or you wont make it. The Homeless Shelter doesnt have the resources to help you all day. And they only let everyone sleep on the floor for the coldest 3 months of the year, when Christmas donations make feeding everyone ONE meal possible. When that runs out, or by county statute, you're on your own. There's always someone that keeps the light-sleepers awake during those months. There's always someone bringing a virus in to that shelter. And there's always the one who needs to get voted off the island for everyone's safety - and sometimes he gets to stay, which keeps everyone awake except the security officer. Sometimes there's even the person who should be in a nursing home, but cant afford it and will defacate on theirself, and let it run down the floor. They can't help it, and we only get tapwater to clean it with. So you make other arrangements where you can. If you had your wits about you and enough resources, you could get by on a daily basis. Those "criminals" were just fellows looking for their next meal, same as me. I didnt bother them except as a "heads up," and they returned the favor in both ways. Same with cops - who, after enough analysis from this perspective became just another gang. The "heads up" I gave them were just of a different sort - fast food menus or coffee are things you'll have in common. Always have "normal" conversation ready for cops that isnt snitching - running & hiding only makes them chase, and you're going to have to walk near / with one eventually. Always smile and wave to the cop. I dont care if you have a kilo of coke in a trojan condom up your ass, wave to make the man with a gun think you're friendly when he simply drives past and ignores you. You want to be human but forgettable. And that's just the lay of the land - you better know them - cops, gangs, geography; be friendly rather than a nuisance around their turf. Even the hardest of them usually appreciates some manner reciprocity and a genuine nature from the lowest among us. Then again, I didnt have access to suits. So I looked homeless, even with as much of a job as I could keep. All my money went out the moment it came in - ITS DECEPTIVELY EXPENSIVE TO BE HOMELESS SAFELY. In order to not get picked up by the cops, I needed to move around A LOT. Friends - fellow "travellers" and otherwise make survival possible. Need a ride to get out of dodge? Need folk medicine to survive, need a meal? Better share, so you can be shared-with. And you usually dont wanna be known as homeless, just a "slob". At the same time most of those fellows in the same situation are going to be drains on your resources, not worthwhile investments of your time. Do you wanna eat, or just stare at someone else who's hungry until you punch each other? But you need to know that guy's name, have him like you enough to not try to steal from you. Need to see a doctor? Need a dentist, a shower, a hot meal that isnt convenience food or similar junk food served by a soup kitchen? You better have a job that makes these possible - if not, you're screwed. And thats rarely a ticket out to a liveable life. So every motherfucker has their lotto-ticket dream that they know is gonna work out. Emotionally, this keeps them alive. It doesnt matter what it is, or if its realistic. They're not gonna take "no" for an answer if they can help it, regarding that. This is how people fucking snap - they run out of ideas they think they can work. Or worse - they settle in, and accept their lives as the perpetually ignored. They can last for 30 years, but they usually dont make it through the next winter. Even cheap folk medicine became a terrible expense, and neglected health problems become untenable. This is what gets us all, eventually. And then someone steps in to help if you're lucky and young, after usually irreparable damage is done, and what's fixable costs a fortune. Local "assistance" agencies requiring folks to be homeless for a Full Year to qualify for any help made it worse. But then, requirements that folks have their last address within that county, and not leave the county to seek opportunities elsewhere? Just makes it worse. You get three hots and a cot - after trying and failing for a full year, tied down to the place you keep failing in. That year of failure breaks most people in some way. No, not everyone is entirely out of options. But so many of us kid ourselves - we turn it into a "choice," when it was really just the only way to escape an even worse situation of similar poverty - that was my story. I had kept the same job for years before, and through my time on the streets. It was the hardest time there, feeling ashamed around those people about my... "lifestyle". Its still painful to look back and see how I just... Changed. Dont get me wrong - I kinda miss parts of it. Getting off work and being free to play and code, to wander, to learn whats around me in a new spot to explore. The stargazing simple dates, and But hey. Tell me more about your bougie homelessness.