5 ms·

When you say that they won't accept help, what do you mean? What did you try to offer that they didn't accept?

technobabble 8y ago
I can't speek for the parent poster. I don't feel comfortable giving money, so instead I offer to get them something at a local restaraunt, or try to give them some of my food if I have it on me. In some (but not all) circumstances, I've been told to "f!ck off" and "suck a c!ck" becaue they want money, presumably for drugs/alcohol/etc. Again this is my experience. Your mileage may vary.
- elliekelly 8y ago
  I don't give money to homeless people for the same reason. The occasional rude responses can absolutely be frustrating but I think it helps (and is very difficult) to try to put yourself in the shoes of someone suffering from addiction. There's a homeless man in my neighborhood named Kevin that I chat with most mornings when I walk my dog. He goes to a methadone clinic to help treat his addiction. I usually see him when I'm walking towards the coffee shop, ask him for his coffee/breakfast order, and he hangs out with my dog while I go inside. Most days he's a nice, personable, friendly guy who tells me "dad jokes" and has a bag of dog treats for his neighborhood friends. Sober Kevin is appreciative and would never dream of asking me for a dime. Some days he's coming off a bender and looking for money to buy more drugs and is kind of a dick. A lot of the benders coincide with him being unable to get to the clinic for one reason or another. Occasionally sober Kevin will apologize for the way he spoke to me when he was single mindedly focused on his next high. He once offered the analogy of when you really need to pee. The absolute only thing your brain is capable of focusing on is finding a bathroom. You're urgently trying to solve this one, desperate problem. You're walking around asking and asking where the bathroom is and people keep saying "I can't help you find the bathroom, but here's a vending machine." It's by no means an excuse for someone to be rude to a stranger trying to help but it certainly helps me have a little bit more compassion for those dealing with addiction. I think it's frustrating for them, too.
  - magic_beans 8y ago
    I wish there were more kind, sane people like you on HN. Some commenters in this thread really lack empathy :(
- TallGuyShort 8y ago
  One thing I did for a while (I no longer live in a place with many panhandlers) was restaurant gift cards. It can't be spent on drugs or alcohol (at least not directly), and most cheap restaurants aren't going to kick out a homeless person very quickly on a cold night. I don't think I ever gave out double-digits of those, but I never got a bad reaction...
- nyghtly 8y ago
  Here's the thing: 1. Homeless people are screwed by society in almost every possible way. 2. There are a million ways to get free food when you're homeless. I.e. hunger is a solved problem for most homeless people. With this context in mind, you can see how offering someone your half-eaten leftovers, or forcing them to go on some journey with you in exchange for a basic meal, is not only unhelpful--it's downright insulting. If you don't feel comfortable giving them money, or engaging in an honest conversation, then just say sorry and walk away. And if you feel like you want to help homeless people without giving them money, then give the money to an organization instead. The bottom line: don't expect homeless people to be grateful to you, especially if what you're offering is next to nothing for them.
Domenic_S 8y ago
A friend of mine because of his job encounters the homeless on a regular basis. He is very plugged in to homeless resources and offers to get them a roof tonight. The #1 response to this offer is, "can I do anything I want there?" -- in other words, will I get kicked out for doing drugs? Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this problem.
- ben509 8y ago
  > Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this problem. I suspect what mental health issues mean to most people is you now have a vaguely scientific explanation of why someone is intrinsically bad.
  - TallGuyShort 8y ago
    Mental health issues aren't intrinsic. Like physical health issues, you might be born with them or you might acquire them as a consequence of your environment. But they should be seen in the context of how to cure or manage them. They don't need to be a defining characteristic of who you are. I know we don't like to imply that things about people's personality is "wrong", but if you're unable to be self-sufficient, I think addressing whatever is preventing that is reasonable.
    - amanaplanacanal 8y ago
      I agree with you 100%, but you are coming from a more liberal viewpoint. From a moralistic viewpoint, these people are bad, and should not get help, since it is their own damn fault. From a more conservative viewpoint comes the moral hazard argument: Some believe that if you help that person then they will never have to deal with their "bad" behavior. And it will encourage other people to engage in the same "bad" behavior so they can get whatever free goodies you are giving away. People have all these different mental models of homelessness.
TallGuyShort 8y ago
In terms of not accepting help, I've had people refuse to be put in a motel for the night or placed with someone who had a room for rent. That was primarily a case of pride as they've usually been very newly homeless, but they end up sleeping somewhere unsafe and / or illegal, so I'd love to be able to break past that mental barrier for them. In terms of being mad about help given, the strongest example in my memory was a group that was offering free hygiene kits (this came to mind because of the article's comments on dental problems) at a soup kitchen. Some people were very offended at the idea and thought it was given in a judgmental way. I can see why they might think that, but... they need those items. So how do you avoid giving that impression? They ended up having a bin of items instead of handing them to everyone - it definitely didn't get received that much better.
- nyghtly 8y ago
  I've distributed hygiene kits such as those in a shelter environment and most people were very grateful for them. It probably depends on the environment you're in. But the bottom line is if something isn't well received then don't offer it, or try to offer it in a different context. If someone was really dedicated, then they would sit down with one or two people from the homeless community and ask them what they want and how they want to receive it. Most of us aren't willing to do this, and that's fine. I think the problem is that we expect it to be easy to please a homeless person because they "have nothing." But in reality they are complex human beings like everyone else and they don't want to be treated as lesser.

I can't speek for the parent poster. I don't feel comfortable giving money, so instead I offer to get them something at a local restaraunt, or try to give them some of my food if I have it on me. In some (but not all) circumstances, I've been told to "f!ck off" and "suck a c!ck" becaue they want money, presumably for drugs/alcohol/etc. Again this is my experience. Your mileage may vary.

elliekelly 8y ago
I don't give money to homeless people for the same reason. The occasional rude responses can absolutely be frustrating but I think it helps (and is very difficult) to try to put yourself in the shoes of someone suffering from addiction. There's a homeless man in my neighborhood named Kevin that I chat with most mornings when I walk my dog. He goes to a methadone clinic to help treat his addiction. I usually see him when I'm walking towards the coffee shop, ask him for his coffee/breakfast order, and he hangs out with my dog while I go inside. Most days he's a nice, personable, friendly guy who tells me "dad jokes" and has a bag of dog treats for his neighborhood friends. Sober Kevin is appreciative and would never dream of asking me for a dime. Some days he's coming off a bender and looking for money to buy more drugs and is kind of a dick. A lot of the benders coincide with him being unable to get to the clinic for one reason or another. Occasionally sober Kevin will apologize for the way he spoke to me when he was single mindedly focused on his next high. He once offered the analogy of when you really need to pee. The absolute only thing your brain is capable of focusing on is finding a bathroom. You're urgently trying to solve this one, desperate problem. You're walking around asking and asking where the bathroom is and people keep saying "I can't help you find the bathroom, but here's a vending machine." It's by no means an excuse for someone to be rude to a stranger trying to help but it certainly helps me have a little bit more compassion for those dealing with addiction. I think it's frustrating for them, too.
- magic_beans 8y ago
  I wish there were more kind, sane people like you on HN. Some commenters in this thread really lack empathy :(
TallGuyShort 8y ago
One thing I did for a while (I no longer live in a place with many panhandlers) was restaurant gift cards. It can't be spent on drugs or alcohol (at least not directly), and most cheap restaurants aren't going to kick out a homeless person very quickly on a cold night. I don't think I ever gave out double-digits of those, but I never got a bad reaction...
nyghtly 8y ago
Here's the thing: 1. Homeless people are screwed by society in almost every possible way. 2. There are a million ways to get free food when you're homeless. I.e. hunger is a solved problem for most homeless people. With this context in mind, you can see how offering someone your half-eaten leftovers, or forcing them to go on some journey with you in exchange for a basic meal, is not only unhelpful--it's downright insulting. If you don't feel comfortable giving them money, or engaging in an honest conversation, then just say sorry and walk away. And if you feel like you want to help homeless people without giving them money, then give the money to an organization instead. The bottom line: don't expect homeless people to be grateful to you, especially if what you're offering is next to nothing for them.

Domenic_S 8y ago

A friend of mine because of his job encounters the homeless on a regular basis. He is very plugged in to homeless resources and offers to get them a roof tonight. The #1 response to this offer is, "can I do anything I want there?" -- in other words, will I get kicked out for doing drugs? Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this problem.

ben509 8y ago
> Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this problem. I suspect what mental health issues mean to most people is you now have a vaguely scientific explanation of why someone is intrinsically bad.
- TallGuyShort 8y ago
  Mental health issues aren't intrinsic. Like physical health issues, you might be born with them or you might acquire them as a consequence of your environment. But they should be seen in the context of how to cure or manage them. They don't need to be a defining characteristic of who you are. I know we don't like to imply that things about people's personality is "wrong", but if you're unable to be self-sufficient, I think addressing whatever is preventing that is reasonable.
  - amanaplanacanal 8y ago
    I agree with you 100%, but you are coming from a more liberal viewpoint. From a moralistic viewpoint, these people are bad, and should not get help, since it is their own damn fault. From a more conservative viewpoint comes the moral hazard argument: Some believe that if you help that person then they will never have to deal with their "bad" behavior. And it will encourage other people to engage in the same "bad" behavior so they can get whatever free goodies you are giving away. People have all these different mental models of homelessness.

TallGuyShort 8y ago

In terms of not accepting help, I've had people refuse to be put in a motel for the night or placed with someone who had a room for rent. That was primarily a case of pride as they've usually been very newly homeless, but they end up sleeping somewhere unsafe and / or illegal, so I'd love to be able to break past that mental barrier for them. In terms of being mad about help given, the strongest example in my memory was a group that was offering free hygiene kits (this came to mind because of the article's comments on dental problems) at a soup kitchen. Some people were very offended at the idea and thought it was given in a judgmental way. I can see why they might think that, but... they need those items. So how do you avoid giving that impression? They ended up having a bin of items instead of handing them to everyone - it definitely didn't get received that much better.

nyghtly 8y ago
I've distributed hygiene kits such as those in a shelter environment and most people were very grateful for them. It probably depends on the environment you're in. But the bottom line is if something isn't well received then don't offer it, or try to offer it in a different context. If someone was really dedicated, then they would sit down with one or two people from the homeless community and ask them what they want and how they want to receive it. Most of us aren't willing to do this, and that's fine. I think the problem is that we expect it to be easy to please a homeless person because they "have nothing." But in reality they are complex human beings like everyone else and they don't want to be treated as lesser.