5 ms·

This is really great. I switched off products that use palm oil a while back, but I always feel so isolated when making changes like this. When a giant compan

This is really great. I switched off products that use palm oil a while back, but I always feel so isolated when making changes like this. When a giant company does it, that has real impact. Thanks to the people out there that are making this sort of thing happen -- here's to hoping real good comes out of this.

friendly_chap 8y ago
Likely big companies do this because there are enough of people like you out there who vote with their wallets, so I think you succeeded, congrats and thanks!
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  I'm more inclined to believe that it's the media causing negative PR for the companies. Brand image is everything to big companies so a slew of media attacks around a particular topic will often cause the company to change tactics.
  - new12345 8y ago
    True. Single most important factor that brings changes to any publicly traded company direction is revenue growth.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Unless you're a government-entitled monopoly (in the US: ISPs). Then it doesn't matter what anyone says about you (the company), and 'voting with your wallet' means you (the consumer/citizen) go without a crucial utility.
      - DoubleCribble 8y ago
        Or you can start your own utility and be the change you want to see in the world. A lifestyle business does not appear to be out of reach for those with some technical skills and a modest budget[0]. [0] https://startyourownisp.com/ https://startyourownisp.com/
        craftyguy 8y ago
        I've considered doing this in the past. You need more than a modest budget to maintain such a system, especially if you plan to sell service (and, inherently, support). It seems like it would be a full time job. In addition, you still rely on those monopolies to provide you with the utility: https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/
  - rvense 8y ago
    I know some people disapprove of it as a tactic, but I think it's been shown more than once that Greenpeace's shaming campaigns can be quite effective.
    - beaconstudios 8y ago
      that's also just an attempt to generate negative publicity though.
camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
If it makes you feel any better I did the same a few years ago and echo your sentiments exactly. They like to sneak the shit and its derivatives into all sorts of things. It took a little effort to educate myself but by and large the stuff with palm oil in it tends to be garbage you don't need. There are more of us out there and seeing this news proves we aren't alone! Now if only the textiles industries would follow through with some commitment to environmental sustainability in that same reigon.
stronglikedan 8y ago
> I switched off products that use palm oil a while back Do you have any reliable resources on how to do this? I would like to, but I'm always dubious of the resources I find, since they seem to be biased. Not that I don't trust their information, but I just have a hard time verifying it.
- crispyporkbites 8y ago
  for food, read the ingredients, if it says palm oil or vegetable oil don't buy it
  - TremendousJudge 8y ago
    >vegetable oil but what if it's just regular sunflower oil or something of the sort?
    - digitalsushi 8y ago
      vegetable oil is generally specified by which type, since some oils (soy, for me) are allergens and could really mess someone up if they randomly eat the wrong kind. it would say something like "vegetable oil (one or more of the following: canola, soy, sunflower oil)"
    - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
      Always assume it’s the lowest common denominator. Sunflower oil is more expensive so it won’t be that, if it was they would say.
  - CompelTechnic 8y ago
    I'm relatively certain that I (in the U.S.) have never purchased any oil labeled as "vegetable" oil that gave any indication it may contain palm oil. Is there oil labeled as "vegetable oil" that contains palm oil? Or is there another reason you think it should be avoided?
    - ip26 8y ago
ip26 8y ago
When you buy, for example, soap, what ingredients do you look for instead? I avoid palm oil in foods for the simple reason I don't consider anything made with palm oil to be a "whole" food. But I've never known what to do about other products like soap. P.S. To bystanders, you may think your soaps don't contain palm oil. Check for anything like "lauryl sulfate". That's (probably) palm oil.
- skosch 8y ago
  Soap is really tricky. The realistic alternatives at a commercial scale are coconut oil (but coconuts take twice the land to grow, compared to palm kernels) or animal fat (which you may not want in your soap). Sustainably sourced palm oil is probably the best option for soap making.
  - elhudy 8y ago
    I typically purchase soap made from the discarded fat of liposuction clinics; it's cheaper and waste-free.
    - booleandilemma 8y ago
      I thought they only made soap like that in the movie Fight Club...
      - drkl 8y ago
        > I thought they only made soap like that in the movie Fight Club... > I thought they only made soap like that in the movie Fight Club... Nested
    - sizzle 8y ago
      Got any links? This sounds fascinating.
      - elhudy 8y ago
        Sorry, I was just being a smartass :p
throwaway5752 8y ago
Since it sounds like you've researched this, what are more sustainable alternatives that you've found? Or open to anyone else's findings, too.
- niftich 8y ago
  Palm oil is largely used for three things: (1) as a feedstock for making surfactants in personal cleaners (shampoos, toothpaste, bath gel) like sodium laureth sulfate [1]; (2) as a substitute for partially hydrogenated vegetable oils (incl. trans fats) in food manufacturing; partial hydrogenation of vegetable oils (containing unsaturated fatty acids) will alter their melting point and texture to produce solid-at-room-temp shortening; and (3) as a cooking oil. Lately, it has also seen some use in biodiesel. To replace palm oil in surfactants, you can use coconut oil (which is even more intensive to produce), or by synthesizing the precursors from mined hydrocarbons (typically oil or natural gas) using a variety of clever chemical reactions; or lard from animals, which requires raising animals. To replace palm oil in food manufacturing, you can use coconut oil, lard, or you can partially hydrogenate unsaturated fatty acids derived from many vegetable oils; by doing the latter you're converting some of your product into trans fat. To replace palm oil in cooking, choose from a variety of other oils and fats. Unfortunately, almost all of the European and US consumption is for manufacturing, while elsewhere it's used for cooking as well. While European and US suppliers do own palm oil plantations, they also source from other producers. This complicates the market: boycotts against big manufacturers of soap or food will drive the price of palm oil lower, increasing the likelihood that it will be offloaded to a different set of countries as cheap cooking oil. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecanol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecanol
seunosewa 8y ago
What do you perceive as the benefit of not buying products that use palm oil?

friendly_chap 8y ago

Likely big companies do this because there are enough of people like you out there who vote with their wallets, so I think you succeeded, congrats and thanks!

beaconstudios 8y ago
I'm more inclined to believe that it's the media causing negative PR for the companies. Brand image is everything to big companies so a slew of media attacks around a particular topic will often cause the company to change tactics.
- new12345 8y ago
  True. Single most important factor that brings changes to any publicly traded company direction is revenue growth.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Unless you're a government-entitled monopoly (in the US: ISPs). Then it doesn't matter what anyone says about you (the company), and 'voting with your wallet' means you (the consumer/citizen) go without a crucial utility.
    - DoubleCribble 8y ago
      Or you can start your own utility and be the change you want to see in the world. A lifestyle business does not appear to be out of reach for those with some technical skills and a modest budget[0]. [0] https://startyourownisp.com/ https://startyourownisp.com/
      - craftyguy 8y ago
        I've considered doing this in the past. You need more than a modest budget to maintain such a system, especially if you plan to sell service (and, inherently, support). It seems like it would be a full time job. In addition, you still rely on those monopolies to provide you with the utility: https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/
- rvense 8y ago
  I know some people disapprove of it as a tactic, but I think it's been shown more than once that Greenpeace's shaming campaigns can be quite effective.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    that's also just an attempt to generate negative publicity though.

camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago

If it makes you feel any better I did the same a few years ago and echo your sentiments exactly. They like to sneak the shit and its derivatives into all sorts of things. It took a little effort to educate myself but by and large the stuff with palm oil in it tends to be garbage you don't need. There are more of us out there and seeing this news proves we aren't alone! Now if only the textiles industries would follow through with some commitment to environmental sustainability in that same reigon.

stronglikedan 8y ago

> I switched off products that use palm oil a while back Do you have any reliable resources on how to do this? I would like to, but I'm always dubious of the resources I find, since they seem to be biased. Not that I don't trust their information, but I just have a hard time verifying it.

crispyporkbites 8y ago
for food, read the ingredients, if it says palm oil or vegetable oil don't buy it
- TremendousJudge 8y ago
  >vegetable oil but what if it's just regular sunflower oil or something of the sort?
  - digitalsushi 8y ago
    vegetable oil is generally specified by which type, since some oils (soy, for me) are allergens and could really mess someone up if they randomly eat the wrong kind. it would say something like "vegetable oil (one or more of the following: canola, soy, sunflower oil)"
  - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
    Always assume it’s the lowest common denominator. Sunflower oil is more expensive so it won’t be that, if it was they would say.
- CompelTechnic 8y ago
  I'm relatively certain that I (in the U.S.) have never purchased any oil labeled as "vegetable" oil that gave any indication it may contain palm oil. Is there oil labeled as "vegetable oil" that contains palm oil? Or is there another reason you think it should be avoided?
  - ip26 8y ago

ip26 8y ago

When you buy, for example, soap, what ingredients do you look for instead? I avoid palm oil in foods for the simple reason I don't consider anything made with palm oil to be a "whole" food. But I've never known what to do about other products like soap. P.S. To bystanders, you may think your soaps don't contain palm oil. Check for anything like "lauryl sulfate". That's (probably) palm oil.

skosch 8y ago
Soap is really tricky. The realistic alternatives at a commercial scale are coconut oil (but coconuts take twice the land to grow, compared to palm kernels) or animal fat (which you may not want in your soap). Sustainably sourced palm oil is probably the best option for soap making.
- elhudy 8y ago
  I typically purchase soap made from the discarded fat of liposuction clinics; it's cheaper and waste-free.
  - booleandilemma 8y ago
    I thought they only made soap like that in the movie Fight Club...
    - drkl 8y ago
      > I thought they only made soap like that in the movie Fight Club... > I thought they only made soap like that in the movie Fight Club... Nested
  - sizzle 8y ago
    Got any links? This sounds fascinating.
    - elhudy 8y ago
      Sorry, I was just being a smartass :p

throwaway5752 8y ago

Since it sounds like you've researched this, what are more sustainable alternatives that you've found? Or open to anyone else's findings, too.

niftich 8y ago
Palm oil is largely used for three things: (1) as a feedstock for making surfactants in personal cleaners (shampoos, toothpaste, bath gel) like sodium laureth sulfate [1]; (2) as a substitute for partially hydrogenated vegetable oils (incl. trans fats) in food manufacturing; partial hydrogenation of vegetable oils (containing unsaturated fatty acids) will alter their melting point and texture to produce solid-at-room-temp shortening; and (3) as a cooking oil. Lately, it has also seen some use in biodiesel. To replace palm oil in surfactants, you can use coconut oil (which is even more intensive to produce), or by synthesizing the precursors from mined hydrocarbons (typically oil or natural gas) using a variety of clever chemical reactions; or lard from animals, which requires raising animals. To replace palm oil in food manufacturing, you can use coconut oil, lard, or you can partially hydrogenate unsaturated fatty acids derived from many vegetable oils; by doing the latter you're converting some of your product into trans fat. To replace palm oil in cooking, choose from a variety of other oils and fats. Unfortunately, almost all of the European and US consumption is for manufacturing, while elsewhere it's used for cooking as well. While European and US suppliers do own palm oil plantations, they also source from other producers. This complicates the market: boycotts against big manufacturers of soap or food will drive the price of palm oil lower, increasing the likelihood that it will be offloaded to a different set of countries as cheap cooking oil. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecanol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecanol

seunosewa 8y ago

What do you perceive as the benefit of not buying products that use palm oil?