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Ask HN: If I use GSuite does Google mine my data for their own purposes?
If I pay for GSuite and I browse the web while logged on to my GSuite account using Chrome, for example, does Google mine my data/metadata/behavior for the purposes of advancing their business model? Or just to "help deliver my services"
- neilsimp1 8y agoI'd be very surprised if Google wasn't doing that with your data. It's their business model.
- jakejarvis 8y agoExcept when someone's paying them cold hard cash for something like G Suite, you'd think that should be enough of a business model for them...but I think you're right to remain skeptical of that. :\
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Adaptive 8y agoPage 12 https://storage.googleapis.com/gfw-touched-accounts-pdfs/google-cloud-security-and-compliance-whitepaper.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/gfw-touched-accounts-pdfs/goo...
- exegete 8y agoCare to summarize your conclusion so we all don't have to download the PDF?
- josefresco 8y agoFor the lazy... > G Suite customers own their data, not Google. The data that G Suite organizations and users put into our systems is theirs, and we do not scan it for advertisements nor sell it to third parties. We offer our customers a detailed data processing amendment that describes our commitment to protecting customer data. Furthermore, if customers delete their data, we commit to deleting it from our systems within 180 days. Finally, we provide tools that make it easy for customer administrators to take their data with them if they choose to stop using our services, without penalty or additional cost imposed by Google >No advertising in G Suite There is no advertising in the G Suite Core Services, and we have no plans to change this in the future. Google does not collect, scan or use data in G Suite Core Services for advertising purposes. Customer administrators can restrict access to Non-Core Services from the Google Admin console. Google indexes customer data to provide beneficial services, such as spam filtering, virus detection, spellcheck and the ability to search for emails and files within an individual account. Data Processing Amendment: https://gsuite.google.com/terms/dpa_terms.html https://gsuite.google.com/terms/dpa_terms.html
- parallel_item 8y agoI like to think of myself as having "alternative" priorities :) Thanks a bunch!
- choot 8y agoDoes it stop them from finding generalities in the data and selling that info?
- maxxxxx 8y agoI don't think so.
- thrill 8y agoThe specificity of "for advertising purposes" leaves wide open the likelihood that it is scanned for "their own purposes", per the question that was asked.
- modernerd 8y agoOr for the purposes of, “spam filtering, virus detection, spellcheck and the ability to search for emails and files…”, which seems reasonable and fair.
- lmkg 8y agoIn my (non-expert) opinion, one of the most important parts of the linked DPA is where Google claims that they are a Processor and not a Controller under GDPR. A Controller has discretion of what processing takes place and how it is used. A Controller also has greater responsibilities under GDPR to both the data subject and to the authorities. If Google wants to limit their exposure to GDPR (and I see every indication that this is their current strategy), then they need to make sure they only carry out the processing activities outlined in the DPA.
- Klonoar 8y agoI used to pay for GSuite and still found my content being mined. With all due respect to Google, I find it hard to believe that they're as consistent as they believe with filtering paid vs free accounts across the service. I could be, and am open to being, wrong, though. I'm not Google. Just found myself with substantially less targeted advertising once I left. And actually that's slightly interesting - how does one determine a bug re: being the recipient of targeted ads when you shouldn't be? Probably wording it wrong without coffee in me, but I hadn't thought of it like that.
- tehwebguy 8y ago> found my content being mined How?
- turc1656 8y agoOP indicated the reason for the conclusion - "...found myself with substantially less targeted advertising once I left"
- danieldk 8y agoBesides what the parent already mentioned, I was also a paying GSuite user for some years (when it was still called Google Apps for Applications/Business). And I had e-mail contacts (Google Mail is covered by GApps) appear as suggested profiles, etc. in Google+ (then not covered by GApps). Even if there is no malice, it seems that they are not enforcing strict boundaries between their products.
- TheReverend403 8y ago> And I had e-mail contacts (Google Mail is covered by GApps) appear as suggested profiles, etc. in Google+ (then not covered by GApps). It's still a Google service tied to your account, gsuite or not. It doesn't surprise me one bit that there's still a bit of integration there. They already have your email and the emails of others in your address book that you willingly gave them. It's not like they're mining you to steal those and give you creepy suggestions.
- Rjevski 8y agoOfficially not. In reality, nobody knows, and given their business model I wouldn’t be surprised if they did anyway.
- wombatpm 8y agoBased on the Googler's comment above, I think both are true. I can fully believe that test data has to be obtained from certain sources for development and whatnot. But once the algorithm is in production , I'm sure its sifting though your stuff as you are browsing just like everything else.
- kakaorka 8y agoI believe Google is a surveillance company, and I like to think that anything they do has something to do with that. I would love someone to prove me wrong though, because what they're doing is so dystopian.
- jdavis703 8y ago> would love someone to prove me wrong though The burden of proof lies on the person making claims. I'm not asserting that your claims are wrong, but if you want people to take your statements seriously you need to provide proof. In order to practice what I teach, here's an article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy). EDIT: Fixed paragraph formatting
- craftyguy 8y agoI mean, it's literally no secret that Google collects user information, contents of emails, browsing history, etc and uses it to target advertisements to users. If you use a google product or service for more than 5 minutes, you literally see it happening.
- jdavis703 8y agoOK, I guess that depends on how you define surveillance. I think of surveillance as having some kind of relation to the state, for example a private investigator looking into a court matter, a company sharing information with the government (outside of warrants), etc. If we're taking surveillance to mean general tracking, then yes the OP's statement probably doesn't need further evidence.
- craftyguy 8y agoI think most folks associate surveillance with this definition of the word: "continuous observation of a place, person, group, or ongoing activity in order to gather information"
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- xte 8y agoYour data are on their server? If yes you simply can't no and (the need of) trust is a weakness. Since you can only trust them you are in a weak position as a user, be confident enough than that your data's will be used is some way.
- lgleason 8y agoYes, and they are known to scan it and kick people off for "inappropriate" content under a very subjective and not equally enforced set of standards. This is why I don't recommend Google Cloud to clients.
- conductr 8y agoDo you mean they scan your files and will kick you off for running a porn business because of the content in your slides/sheets/files. Or are you saying, if you run a church they will kick you off for occasional porn browsing? Using porn as an example of possibile subjective inappropriateness
- UncleMeat 8y agoIt means that storing child pornography on the cloud is against the tos.
- phjesusthatguy3 8y agoIt looks like a lot of people went straight to "Google said they don't scan your documents for advertising purposes" and skipped over your actual question, which was "does Google scan everything I do in Chrome when I'm logged in even if I pay for GSuite" and I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.
- alphabettsy 8y agoI don’t belive they scan the contents of your documents/emails, but I do beleive they use metadata and behavior. I’m conflicted because part of me thinks using their paid services encourages them to pursue a more Apple-link business model where advertising dollars are not the end goal, but it just doesn’t seem to be their mission at all.
- altairiumblue 8y agoAnecdotally, a couple of weeks ago I made a "budget" spreadsheet in google sheets and since then I've been getting the same youtube ad for a money management app, over and over again. I hadn't seen the ad before and the spreadsheet is the only change in my behaviour on google services that I can think of.
- quickthrower2 8y agoDid you search for anything budget related?
- yuhong 8y agoThis is one of the reasons why I wrote my essay/overview, to investigate these problems.
- pengo 8y agoGoogle will capture your data whether you're a paying customer of not. They will tell you they capture "some data" to personalise their service and make your life more convenient. In reality, they capture everything they can and it's all grist to their advertising mill. But Google is not the only company doing this. Facebook and Amazon will track you across the internet, and even Microsoft is now adopting similar strategies. Your best defence is to minimise the attack surface. Own your own data by paying for cloud storage and email. Use a browser like Brave, or Firefox with the new privacy control turned on. Don't post anything to social media you wouldn't be happy for the whole world to know.
- pengo 8y agoIf you can cope with living in a walled garden, replace all your devices with Apple products.
- jstimpfle 8y agoI find it really hard to tell if you are cynical or not :-) Not making any statement about the current Apple, of course... which I know next to nothing about since I've never owned any Apple devices.
- danesparza 8y agoApple makes some pretty strong claims about your privacy as a customer: https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/
- plg 8y agoMy hardware is all apple. My OS's are all apple. But I use GSuite for email/calendar. Email because I use my own domain and Calendar because we use it at my workplace for scheduling shared resources (conference rooms etc). I suppose I could easily switch to another email provider (e.g. Fastmail). I also suppose I could stop using Google Calendar for my own calendar and only use it for scheduling conference rooms at my workplace. Or get someone else to schedule rooms for me using their google account. I still use google for search but I suppose I could switch. I use apple maps 99.9% of the time and it's fine.
- robbystk 8y agoOf course they do. How could you be so naive?
- gxigzigxigxi 8y agoIf you want an answer from someone who actually knows, consider contacting your gsuites account rep or asking on the support forum for gsuite. It is apparent from the other responses find their root in uninformed paranoia rather than actual knowledge. (I don’t actually know either, and I think it depends on what you mean by “scan” and what program you’re worried is doing said scanning. It also depends what you mean by “for their own benefit.”)
- salomaki 8y agoYes on two levels: 1. If you're logged into Chrome or using Google properties, they're using your behavior along with everyone else's to see what patterns people have, what sites are popular, which ads convert, etc. If they were to stop doing that tracking whenever you're logged into a GSuite account, they'd publicize that loudly and clearly as a selling point. Given that they don't, I think it's reasonable to believe that they treat GSuite customers' behavioral data the same as all other users'. 2. Specifically your use/behavior of the GSuite products they will also use to improve the GSuite products themselves (and sell more, thereby advancing their business model). For example, if they see that nobody is using a particular feature, they may change where it shows up or eliminate it. What they clearly publicize that they don't do is mine the content of your documents or put advertising inside the GSuite products themselves. But all the behavioral data/metadata you generate will still be used alongside everyone else's.
- tscanausa 8y agoIll link to the official docs from Google: https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-whitepaper/page-6.html https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-white...
- jackallis 8y agoit's a FAANG world and we just live under it.
- rpcastagna 8y ago(I'm a software engineer on Google Drive.) The answer is no. To the point where it's actually a pain in the ass for us because developing any ML-assisted capabilities for G Suite requires us to only get training data from specific subsets of customers who are under special contract conditions. If you buy G Suite from a reseller then they might be doing shady shit but we'd terminate their reseller account if we found out about it. I know people like to bitch about this kinda shit on HN but honestly I and my coworkers spend so much time on protecting our customers' data from literally everyone -- including ourselves -- that I want the chance to bitch back about how hard my job is.
- arduinomancer 8y agoThe ironic thing is the big 4 style companies are usually labeled as being careless with user data yet they probably have some of the strictest internal rules/procedures for user data classification and handling. It’s the startups consumers should be more worried about IMO.
- eb0la 8y agoAs a Cloud Platform customer I find security and data privacy it is handed with a lot of care. Also, I believe all enterprise product purchases are made on trust foundations. If someone did weird stuff with customer data, it will be out of the market in a couple of days. It might be also a felony in some parts of the world.
- mbrock 8y agoI wonder if this commitment is reflected in any official terms or pledges?
- rpcastagna 8y ago"Google Cloud Security and Compliance Whitepaper" linked elsewhere on this thread: https://storage.googleapis.com/gfw-touched-accounts-pdfs/google-cloud-security-and-compliance-whitepaper.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/gfw-touched-accounts-pdfs/goo... Relevant bits start at page 12: "G Suite customers own their data, not Google." "There is no advertising in the G Suite Core Services, and we have no plans to change this in the future" etc. Ultimately the biggest cudgel you have to wield here is in the sales contract you're signing, but my understanding is that the baseline privacy guarantees are standard for all customers at the strictest level -- people actually opt to reduce the restrictions on their data so that new features get built with their use cases in mind (otherwise we wouldn't know what those actual use cases were). A lot of companies use G Suite and a lot of them have very strict privacy + security requirements. This is the same platform used by fintech companies, healthcare companies, MegaCorps, etc. Sort of a thing with all non-web-search Google products: I can't fathom how people see the $5B/quarter "other revenue" line on our earnings statements and think that just doesn't matter and somehow we have to get the "real" money from ads. We definitely did ads-supported-consumer first and we've been doing it the longest and it makes the most money, but how many email providers would kill to have half of that quarter as their annual revenue? G Suite, Cloud, etc are very real businesses in their own right and that's even while being very young and coming from a company that didn't start with any inherent strengths in enterprise markets.
- supercarsw 8y agosad that people even ask these questions.. when they know answer them self.. you really need some google worker to ensure you with lies ?.. common man, think yourself just a moment.
- pbreit 8y agoNo.