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There must be actual Chinese people here on HN. Can any weigh in on the reality of this? It’s a heavy charge to make against an entire population.

by jl6 8y ago

natch 8y ago
Just to be clear，and I'm not saying your missed this distinction, but in case anyone did, I'm not talking about Chinese the race (which technically can be argued as consisting of many races, btw). I'm talking about what the education and state controlled media does to China's citizens who grow up in China.
baobrain 8y ago
I've been through 3-8th grade education in Chengdu at a top 100 school. The rest of my education was in the US, so I may be biased in one way or the other. From my perspective, I didn't really see it that way. Like any country, the history curriculum focuses on China's history, focusing primarily on ancient history (pre-Qing dynasty) for 3 semesters with one semester of modern Chinese history (Qing to present). While there certainly was a nationalistic tendency in many topics I would regard the information as historically accurate (as compared to courses about east Asian history here in the US). And in reality, my many friends in China with whom I've maintained contact over the years do not have this sort of mentality and are against censorship and much of the nationalistic messaging. Another interesting note that people here have no knowledge of is professors in China are often times anti-CCP. Many professors take this to the extreme and in papers will often just give a bad grade if it mentions any good policy by the CCP. On a semi-related note, the comments many make here on HN about China make me extremely uncomfortable. Not because they touch on sensitive topics but because they smear an entire population of people as liars, thieves, and mindless followers. Replace the word "China" and "Chinese" with "Italy" and "Italian" in many comments and they could have been written back in the Ellis Island days.
- natch 8y ago
  I should have made it more clear it's not all people, it's many people. And the problem is not the people, it's the system of government control of education, media, and now digital media at every level. You have been exposed to more voices (metaphorical) so you are one of the lucky ones. It's good to hear you find some of these voices to be inside of China still. I imagine being inside the system before encountering more viewpoints (grades 3-8 in your case) it would hard to see anything wrong. It's like being in the matrix and not knowing you're in the matrix.
  - whorleater 8y ago
    This comment is so incredibly patronizing ("oh it's good to hear you're one of the good Chinese") that I'd be insulted if I wasn't laughing so much.
    - natch 8y ago
      >("oh it's good to hear you're one of the good Chinese") Except that's not what I said or meant. Yet you felt the need to put it in quotes.
- dang 8y ago
  They make me and the other HN moderators uncomfortable too. Unfortunately, I don't know what to do about it at scale. We will continue banning the worst and asking the rest not to do this. But it's a matter of mass trends meeting mass psychology. I feel like Canute commanding the waves to stop, knowing that it won't work. When you notice examples of this, we'd appreciate it if you (or anyone) would email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can at least post moderating comments in the thread. We can't come close to seeing all the comments, and sometimes I notice wretched stuff days later that it pains me to have missed at the time.
  - shawn 8y ago
    You ban way more than the worst.
whorleater 8y ago
I'm Chinese and I can confirm that I am, in fact, a bloodthirsty monster fueled by vengeance as GP commented. In fact I am building a next-gen killbot in my basement as we speak. My education from the Chinese system has left me with no capability for individual thought and zero perspective of the outside world, and therefore all my fellow Chinese citizens are driven by stereotypical perceptions of Chinese culture, as Western internet commenters describe.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Thank you for this, one of the greatest comments I've read on HN. I have tears in my eyes. (Australia here)
echevil 8y ago
I am a Chinese citizen and all my education was in China, from kindergarten to grad school. > China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. I’d say this is correct to a small extent — the history lessons in particular, took that stance when it’s covering contents about Chinese history from late Qing dynasty to the end of WW2. But the education also renders China as a peaceful nation, and the rise of China would benefit the entire world, which majority of the Chinese population agrees. > To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement It would be a correct statement if “righting the wrong” simply means “making China a great country again” so that “centuries of humiliation would never happen again”. Yes majority of Chinese citizens do have national pride, not unlike people any other country I’ve seen. Except maybe some extreme nationalists, most Chinese citizens would love to see China becoming stronger peacefully and be helpful to under-developed parts of the world. > But I think our more diverse (talking about points of view, not race here) and more activist anti-racism voices are a tempering force that China lacks. There are very little discussion about racism in China compared to US, simply because it’s less relevant. - Most Chinese don’t ever interact with a different race. But diversity in oppinions in other topics are very common. I’d say it’s virtually impossible to keep a billion citizens on the same page. Just as an example, at the core of China’s “nationalism education” (don’t know what should I call it) is the anti-Japanese war which was part of WW2. Like South Korea, plenty of Chinese hate Japan for not acknowledging the war crimes they’ve done and trying to erase those facts from their history books. There had been several movement to boycott Japanese products in the past two decades. At the same time, Japanese culture actually have a huge influence in China, especially among young people. Japan is also one of the most popular foreign destinations Chinese people would love to travel to.
- JackFaker 8y ago
  I'm curious to know if you can speak to how minority populations are discussed or addressed in a historical or modern context? I understand that there is something like 50+ recognized minority groups in China.
  - echevil 8y ago

There must be actual Chinese people here on HN. Can any weigh in on the reality of this? It’s a heavy charge to make against an entire population.

by jl6 8y ago

There must be actual Chinese people here on HN. Can any weigh in on the reality of this? It’s a heavy charge to make against an entire population.

natch 8y ago

Just to be clear，and I'm not saying your missed this distinction, but in case anyone did, I'm not talking about Chinese the race (which technically can be argued as consisting of many races, btw). I'm talking about what the education and state controlled media does to China's citizens who grow up in China.

baobrain 8y ago

I've been through 3-8th grade education in Chengdu at a top 100 school. The rest of my education was in the US, so I may be biased in one way or the other. From my perspective, I didn't really see it that way. Like any country, the history curriculum focuses on China's history, focusing primarily on ancient history (pre-Qing dynasty) for 3 semesters with one semester of modern Chinese history (Qing to present). While there certainly was a nationalistic tendency in many topics I would regard the information as historically accurate (as compared to courses about east Asian history here in the US). And in reality, my many friends in China with whom I've maintained contact over the years do not have this sort of mentality and are against censorship and much of the nationalistic messaging. Another interesting note that people here have no knowledge of is professors in China are often times anti-CCP. Many professors take this to the extreme and in papers will often just give a bad grade if it mentions any good policy by the CCP. On a semi-related note, the comments many make here on HN about China make me extremely uncomfortable. Not because they touch on sensitive topics but because they smear an entire population of people as liars, thieves, and mindless followers. Replace the word "China" and "Chinese" with "Italy" and "Italian" in many comments and they could have been written back in the Ellis Island days.

natch 8y ago
I should have made it more clear it's not all people, it's many people. And the problem is not the people, it's the system of government control of education, media, and now digital media at every level. You have been exposed to more voices (metaphorical) so you are one of the lucky ones. It's good to hear you find some of these voices to be inside of China still. I imagine being inside the system before encountering more viewpoints (grades 3-8 in your case) it would hard to see anything wrong. It's like being in the matrix and not knowing you're in the matrix.
- whorleater 8y ago
  This comment is so incredibly patronizing ("oh it's good to hear you're one of the good Chinese") that I'd be insulted if I wasn't laughing so much.
  - natch 8y ago
    >("oh it's good to hear you're one of the good Chinese") Except that's not what I said or meant. Yet you felt the need to put it in quotes.
dang 8y ago
They make me and the other HN moderators uncomfortable too. Unfortunately, I don't know what to do about it at scale. We will continue banning the worst and asking the rest not to do this. But it's a matter of mass trends meeting mass psychology. I feel like Canute commanding the waves to stop, knowing that it won't work. When you notice examples of this, we'd appreciate it if you (or anyone) would email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can at least post moderating comments in the thread. We can't come close to seeing all the comments, and sometimes I notice wretched stuff days later that it pains me to have missed at the time.
- shawn 8y ago
  You ban way more than the worst.

whorleater 8y ago

I'm Chinese and I can confirm that I am, in fact, a bloodthirsty monster fueled by vengeance as GP commented. In fact I am building a next-gen killbot in my basement as we speak. My education from the Chinese system has left me with no capability for individual thought and zero perspective of the outside world, and therefore all my fellow Chinese citizens are driven by stereotypical perceptions of Chinese culture, as Western internet commenters describe.

yesenadam 8y ago
Thank you for this, one of the greatest comments I've read on HN. I have tears in my eyes. (Australia here)

echevil 8y ago

I am a Chinese citizen and all my education was in China, from kindergarten to grad school. > China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. I’d say this is correct to a small extent — the history lessons in particular, took that stance when it’s covering contents about Chinese history from late Qing dynasty to the end of WW2. But the education also renders China as a peaceful nation, and the rise of China would benefit the entire world, which majority of the Chinese population agrees. > To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement It would be a correct statement if “righting the wrong” simply means “making China a great country again” so that “centuries of humiliation would never happen again”. Yes majority of Chinese citizens do have national pride, not unlike people any other country I’ve seen. Except maybe some extreme nationalists, most Chinese citizens would love to see China becoming stronger peacefully and be helpful to under-developed parts of the world. > But I think our more diverse (talking about points of view, not race here) and more activist anti-racism voices are a tempering force that China lacks. There are very little discussion about racism in China compared to US, simply because it’s less relevant. - Most Chinese don’t ever interact with a different race. But diversity in oppinions in other topics are very common. I’d say it’s virtually impossible to keep a billion citizens on the same page. Just as an example, at the core of China’s “nationalism education” (don’t know what should I call it) is the anti-Japanese war which was part of WW2. Like South Korea, plenty of Chinese hate Japan for not acknowledging the war crimes they’ve done and trying to erase those facts from their history books. There had been several movement to boycott Japanese products in the past two decades. At the same time, Japanese culture actually have a huge influence in China, especially among young people. Japan is also one of the most popular foreign destinations Chinese people would love to travel to.

JackFaker 8y ago
I'm curious to know if you can speak to how minority populations are discussed or addressed in a historical or modern context? I understand that there is something like 50+ recognized minority groups in China.
- echevil 8y ago