7 ms·

Murder Suspect Has Witness: A MetroCard (2008)

40 points by danso 8y ago

smcl 8y ago
I’ve heard a bit about various Police departments and prosecutors burying evidence that could clear someone’s name, so I’m surprised they only ignored it and didn’t just discard the metro card.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  Those bastards! Once charges are filed (the public wants to get the /a criminal) they keep going, too proud to admit they were wrong. So what a person's life is ruined. He's probably guilty of something else.
- propter_hoc 8y ago
  Maybe you heard wrong, and most police officers and public justice employees are actually generally good people, who just want justice to be served and for the innocent to be free.
  - alphabettsy 8y ago
    I think you’re probably right, but even these people seem to be driven by efficiency or complacency. I’m not sure how else we end up with so many of these cases of negligence or misconduct and it never seems to be the system itself correcting these injustices, it’s always media attention, lawyer or organizations. I do understand there is probably a large confirmation bias on my part, but the lack of transparency in these organizations leave external sources as the only information available.
  - danso 8y ago
    I think individuals want to be good and do the right thing, but the system may incentivize them to ultimately act against that. For example, the pressure to close a case for stat purposes can incentivize a detective to de-prioritize a lead (throwing away the MetroCard would seemingly be over the line, though).
  - teddyh 8y ago
    And once they get a conviction, the person they caught is, by definition, not an innocent. See how easy that was? Police can only keep their personal sense of self-worth, justice and fairness by… arrogantly sticking to their guns and forcing a conviction onto whoever they initially fingered as being guilty.
  - frogpelt 8y ago
    I don't disagree but the problem is when the lines are very gray. Like when you have Jason Jones in custody and he's be in trouble for 6 other things and "he probably killed this guy". That's when the generally good people tend to, maybe, cut corners a bit.
  - cascom 8y ago
    “Generally” just doesn’t cut it when the stakes are that high.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
>During the interrogation, he said, it occurred to him that he had used his MetroCard on the bus and the subway, and he asked the police to check it. A detective took the card briefly, and then gave it back to him, and there was no further discussion about the card, he said. The justice system doesn't seek justice, it seeks someone to blame so the statistics look good. How is it not a crime to waste taxpayer money on the wrong person when a detective's willful negligence leads to someone being illegally imprisoned? Taxpayers get to pay even more to rehabilitate the illegally imprisoned since they lose their jobs, and the real killer is meanwhile on the loose. If there was justice, the detective and prosecutors would be facing charges for wasting taxpayer money and wrongfully imprisoning someone, and be fired.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Per danso's comment...he wasn't jailed for this. Charges were dropped.
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    No, he was in jail prior to the charges being dropped.
- jopsen 8y ago
  > If there was justice, the detective and prosecutors would be facing charges for wasting taxpayer money and wrongfully imprisoning someone, and be fired. But if you want justice, punishment probably isn't going to get you there.. Instead try looking to other countries, many places judges and prosecutors aren't elected or politically appointed. The police is tasked with doing an independent investigation. That's a good start.
- frogpelt 8y ago
  It doesn't sound like they even checked his MetroCard. They probably asked around the department maybe called the Metro and were told it would take 3 months to check it and gave it back at that point.
danso 8y ago
Note that the charges were officially dropped a month later [0]. I submitted the original article because it’s almost 10 years to the day, and it contained info about other cases involving the MeteoCard. 0. https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/after-metrocard-alibi-murder-charges-are-dropped/ https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/after-metrocar...
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metrofab 8y ago
So, I'm looking at this image, and a handful of details strike me about the geography... https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/11/19/nyregion/18metrocard.map.190.jpg https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/11/19/nyregion/18metroc... The case was founded on claims by a witness: The witness, who has not been identified, said Corey Jones was arguing with the man and accused him of being a “snitch.” A short time later, the witness said, Corey handed Jason a gun, and Jason fired shots, killing the man. A call to 911 was made at 12:21 a.m., records show. Based on the map, any of these data points have a yawning gulf of time between them. maybe an hour each. None of those data points is really an hour from the other, as the crow flies. These a bike ride-able distances, within the time stamps given. Not knowing any of the names involved, or having a substantial axe to grind, I can just look at those point on the map and say that it would be trivial to hand someone a metrocard and have them swipe it somewhere else, to construct an alibi, and then get it back to me after I'm done with a premeditated crime. The MTA didn't show a video frame capture of any specific person in a particular place. The check-cashing branch had the video still. But look at the time stamps. There was nearly a solid hour to displace, and have someone else fabricate the metrocard swipe. You know, maybe the kind of favor a girlfriend might carry out? Really, there's only one crucial detail that forges the integrity of the evidence: The accused did not warily supply his own evidence. Someone else fished it out and asked questions. The only thing that really lends credence to the extra facts is that the individual might not have opted to seal the alibi air tight of his own volition. The detail might have sat there unused, but for external, and (most-likely) objective advocacy. The trustworthy face of the former detective offering assistance. But really, those metrocard swipes have all the integrity of a wi-fi IP address. Theoretically, a motivated individual could make a metrocard that contradicts real events. It's really not more substantial than a thermal paper receipt. Perhaps interesting on it's own. But only if incidental and used to support stronger facts.
- alphabettsy 8y ago
  There’s an immense amout of speculation in this reply. All of this could have/should’ve been explored by the investigators and supported by evidence. As far as that scenario is concerned, the witness narrative does not suggest a pre-meditated crime as your scenario implies it would have to have been.
gammateam 8y ago
The Bronx is a civil rights disaster. This wouldn't be noteworthy if New York City didn't masquarade itself as the center of the free world. But this only matters from Wall St to West 118th st. Would be 79th st, if Columbia University wasn't up there.
- tnuc 8y ago
  The New York City marathon goes thought the Bronx. Most of the runners hate it, there are not many trees, not many people come out to cheer runners on. There is not a single bookshop in the Bronx.
  - reidjs 8y ago
    For like, a minute. You just kind of cross a bridge into the Bronx and then cross right back into Manhattan.
  - InitialLastName 8y ago
    The New York City marathon goes through the [worst, least interesting part of] the Bronx, for like a mile and a half. The other side has way more trees.
germanyhater 8y ago
U.S. justice system is completely insane. If you rape someone, you will get 10 years in prison, but a women will usually be sentenced for one year for a false rape accusation. Huge discrimination against men!! https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/woman-who-made-false-rape-claim-sentenced-to-prison/ https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/woman-who-made-false-rape-clai...
phkahler 8y ago
From TFA: “It seems somewhat implausible,” he said, that the government’s witness saw the event and was “right about one and mistaken about the other.” I've often wondered if this is part of the reason cases seem to be dropped if the primary suspect is exonerated. I can picture a lawyer saying "Well they took all the evidence and tried to pin it on that guy and it turned out wrong, how can they turn around and say it was my client now?" Or maybe my perception is just wrong, I don't tend to follow such things.

40 points by danso 8y ago

smcl 8y ago

I’ve heard a bit about various Police departments and prosecutors burying evidence that could clear someone’s name, so I’m surprised they only ignored it and didn’t just discard the metro card.

onetimemanytime 8y ago
Those bastards! Once charges are filed (the public wants to get the /a criminal) they keep going, too proud to admit they were wrong. So what a person's life is ruined. He's probably guilty of something else.
propter_hoc 8y ago
Maybe you heard wrong, and most police officers and public justice employees are actually generally good people, who just want justice to be served and for the innocent to be free.
- alphabettsy 8y ago
  I think you’re probably right, but even these people seem to be driven by efficiency or complacency. I’m not sure how else we end up with so many of these cases of negligence or misconduct and it never seems to be the system itself correcting these injustices, it’s always media attention, lawyer or organizations. I do understand there is probably a large confirmation bias on my part, but the lack of transparency in these organizations leave external sources as the only information available.
- danso 8y ago
  I think individuals want to be good and do the right thing, but the system may incentivize them to ultimately act against that. For example, the pressure to close a case for stat purposes can incentivize a detective to de-prioritize a lead (throwing away the MetroCard would seemingly be over the line, though).
- teddyh 8y ago
  And once they get a conviction, the person they caught is, by definition, not an innocent. See how easy that was? Police can only keep their personal sense of self-worth, justice and fairness by… arrogantly sticking to their guns and forcing a conviction onto whoever they initially fingered as being guilty.
- frogpelt 8y ago
  I don't disagree but the problem is when the lines are very gray. Like when you have Jason Jones in custody and he's be in trouble for 6 other things and "he probably killed this guy". That's when the generally good people tend to, maybe, cut corners a bit.
- cascom 8y ago
  “Generally” just doesn’t cut it when the stakes are that high.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

>During the interrogation, he said, it occurred to him that he had used his MetroCard on the bus and the subway, and he asked the police to check it. A detective took the card briefly, and then gave it back to him, and there was no further discussion about the card, he said. The justice system doesn't seek justice, it seeks someone to blame so the statistics look good. How is it not a crime to waste taxpayer money on the wrong person when a detective's willful negligence leads to someone being illegally imprisoned? Taxpayers get to pay even more to rehabilitate the illegally imprisoned since they lose their jobs, and the real killer is meanwhile on the loose. If there was justice, the detective and prosecutors would be facing charges for wasting taxpayer money and wrongfully imprisoning someone, and be fired.

gamblor956 8y ago
Per danso's comment...he wasn't jailed for this. Charges were dropped.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  No, he was in jail prior to the charges being dropped.
jopsen 8y ago
> If there was justice, the detective and prosecutors would be facing charges for wasting taxpayer money and wrongfully imprisoning someone, and be fired. But if you want justice, punishment probably isn't going to get you there.. Instead try looking to other countries, many places judges and prosecutors aren't elected or politically appointed. The police is tasked with doing an independent investigation. That's a good start.
frogpelt 8y ago
It doesn't sound like they even checked his MetroCard. They probably asked around the department maybe called the Metro and were told it would take 3 months to check it and gave it back at that point.

danso 8y ago

Note that the charges were officially dropped a month later [0]. I submitted the original article because it’s almost 10 years to the day, and it contained info about other cases involving the MeteoCard. 0. https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/after-metrocard-alibi-murder-charges-are-dropped/ https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/after-metrocar...

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metrofab 8y ago

So, I'm looking at this image, and a handful of details strike me about the geography... https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/11/19/nyregion/18metrocard.map.190.jpg https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/11/19/nyregion/18metroc... The case was founded on claims by a witness: The witness, who has not been identified, said Corey Jones was arguing with the man and accused him of being a “snitch.” A short time later, the witness said, Corey handed Jason a gun, and Jason fired shots, killing the man. A call to 911 was made at 12:21 a.m., records show. Based on the map, any of these data points have a yawning gulf of time between them. maybe an hour each. None of those data points is really an hour from the other, as the crow flies. These a bike ride-able distances, within the time stamps given. Not knowing any of the names involved, or having a substantial axe to grind, I can just look at those point on the map and say that it would be trivial to hand someone a metrocard and have them swipe it somewhere else, to construct an alibi, and then get it back to me after I'm done with a premeditated crime. The MTA didn't show a video frame capture of any specific person in a particular place. The check-cashing branch had the video still. But look at the time stamps. There was nearly a solid hour to displace, and have someone else fabricate the metrocard swipe. You know, maybe the kind of favor a girlfriend might carry out? Really, there's only one crucial detail that forges the integrity of the evidence: The accused did not warily supply his own evidence. Someone else fished it out and asked questions. The only thing that really lends credence to the extra facts is that the individual might not have opted to seal the alibi air tight of his own volition. The detail might have sat there unused, but for external, and (most-likely) objective advocacy. The trustworthy face of the former detective offering assistance. But really, those metrocard swipes have all the integrity of a wi-fi IP address. Theoretically, a motivated individual could make a metrocard that contradicts real events. It's really not more substantial than a thermal paper receipt. Perhaps interesting on it's own. But only if incidental and used to support stronger facts.

alphabettsy 8y ago
There’s an immense amout of speculation in this reply. All of this could have/should’ve been explored by the investigators and supported by evidence. As far as that scenario is concerned, the witness narrative does not suggest a pre-meditated crime as your scenario implies it would have to have been.

gammateam 8y ago

The Bronx is a civil rights disaster. This wouldn't be noteworthy if New York City didn't masquarade itself as the center of the free world. But this only matters from Wall St to West 118th st. Would be 79th st, if Columbia University wasn't up there.

tnuc 8y ago
The New York City marathon goes thought the Bronx. Most of the runners hate it, there are not many trees, not many people come out to cheer runners on. There is not a single bookshop in the Bronx.
- reidjs 8y ago
  For like, a minute. You just kind of cross a bridge into the Bronx and then cross right back into Manhattan.
- InitialLastName 8y ago
  The New York City marathon goes through the [worst, least interesting part of] the Bronx, for like a mile and a half. The other side has way more trees.

germanyhater 8y ago

U.S. justice system is completely insane. If you rape someone, you will get 10 years in prison, but a women will usually be sentenced for one year for a false rape accusation. Huge discrimination against men!! https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/woman-who-made-false-rape-claim-sentenced-to-prison/ https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/woman-who-made-false-rape-clai...

phkahler 8y ago

From TFA: “It seems somewhat implausible,” he said, that the government’s witness saw the event and was “right about one and mistaken about the other.” I've often wondered if this is part of the reason cases seem to be dropped if the primary suspect is exonerated. I can picture a lawyer saying "Well they took all the evidence and tried to pin it on that guy and it turned out wrong, how can they turn around and say it was my client now?" Or maybe my perception is just wrong, I don't tend to follow such things.