5 ms·

Legitimate question: what is keeping stock OpenJDK from being considered "production-ready" as it is?

SanderMak 8y ago
Nothing, the big thing here is the long-term support. Multi-platform and production-ready are practically a given for any OpenJDK distro.
starefossen 8y ago
Lack of LTS and commercial support most probably.
Arnt 8y ago
Lack of long-time support commitment. A lot of java users want to hear someone say "we'll push updates for any and all CVEs for the next forty-two years, and that's a promise". They may not actually install those updates, but they want to hear someone say that they will exist.
- dragandj 8y ago
  But isn't it exactly what Oracle offers? For the money, of course.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > But isn't it exactly what Oracle offers? For the money, of course. Right. What distinguishes Amazon's offering is that it has that kind of backing at zero cost. With Oracle, you can have zero cost, or “production-ready” backing, but not both together.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Well, we want that for free, of course.
    - tyingq 8y ago
      Or for less than $25 per core, per month. Or clarity on what to do for a 1 VCPU license (1/2 a core). Or how to pay for licenses on ephemeral elastic servers.
  - Arnt 8y ago
    Oracle's offering involves paying Oracle money and getting regular phone calls from the Oracle sales department, which I have heard described in colourful ways.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      Oracle has/had "value based pricing" for larger contracts The discussion goes something like this: Customer: "How much does this cost?" Oracle sales: "How much money do you have?" Now this isn't quite as bad as it sounds (charge based on the value that the new system will bring) but the conversation was definitely a bit uncomfortable..... Oracle was not selected as the vendor. Edit: SAP weren't selected either for different reasons: SAP: "You are a manufacturing company and will use SAP like this" Customer: "We see why you might think that but we don't manufacture things" SAP: "You are a manufacturing company and will use SAP like this" Customer: Next... Obviously, there was more to both conversations - but these are reasonable summaries based upon my dubious memories.
      - richardwhiuk 8y ago
        That's how B2B sales work - the salesman works on how much the customer is willing to pay, then discounts the product down to the point the customer will pay, and the checks that isn't below cost of goods.
- fulafel 8y ago
  So same as rhel openjdk (https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013 https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013) ?
  - yrro 8y ago
    > Are the binary plugs that Oracle did not release the source supported? Are the articles that Red Had publishes ever proof read?
    - setquk 8y ago
      > Red Had :)
      - yrro 8y ago
        I think there's a law about this happening...
addisonj 8y ago
See this link for context: https://jaxenter.com/end-life-comes-early-jdk-8-140824.html https://jaxenter.com/end-life-comes-early-jdk-8-140824.html Tl;Dr: with Oracle changing the release versioning of Java, LTS releases are now essentially a paid product. If you run a large business with a lot of Java that is now a significant new burden to deal with.
- gojomo 8y ago
  And also perhaps a rising desire at Amazon to take Oracle down a few notches, as also seen in the recent “uh huh, keep talking Larry” announcements? EG: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/12/stay_classy_jassy_gets_sassy_with_larry/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/12/stay_classy_jassy_g...
  - Yeroc 8y ago
    And perhaps also a desire to maintain parity with Azure since they announced Java LTS support via Azul for their customers a couple months ago (https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/blog/microsoft-and-azul-systems-bring-free-java-lts-support-to-azure/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/blog/microsoft-and-azul-sy...).
kgoutham93 8y ago
I don't qualify to answer this... But most enterprises want someone to hold accountable in case of any catastrophic failures.
- DannyB2 8y ago
  Holding Accountable means those PHBs should buy a commercially supported Open JDK. Just as you can buy commercially supported Linux even though Linux is open source. Production Ready is a different thing than commercially supported. Linux is "production ready" even if you get a distribution which is not commercially supported with a contract and agreements on fixing it at 3 AM when it blows up.
  - kgoutham93 8y ago
    Agree, according to Oracle's new release cadence every major version is "production ready", just that every sixth release is considered for LTS.
cntlzw 8y ago
OpenJDK 9 and OpenJDK 10 missed several root certificates in its truststore.
- cakeface 8y ago
  Yes! It took me a while to track this down. They weren't really even included until OpenJDK 10. 11 is better but still missing some certificates.
pron 8y ago
OpenJDK is the most "official" Java out there. Oracle develops OpenJDK, and as of JDK 11 all previously commercial features of Oracle JDK have been contributed to OpenJDK, so that now Oracle JDK and OpenJDK are essentially identical[1] [1]: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/oracle-jdk-releases-for-java-11-and-later https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/oracle-jdk-rele...

Nothing, the big thing here is the long-term support. Multi-platform and production-ready are practically a given for any OpenJDK distro.

starefossen 8y ago

Lack of LTS and commercial support most probably.

Arnt 8y ago

Lack of long-time support commitment. A lot of java users want to hear someone say "we'll push updates for any and all CVEs for the next forty-two years, and that's a promise". They may not actually install those updates, but they want to hear someone say that they will exist.

dragandj 8y ago
But isn't it exactly what Oracle offers? For the money, of course.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > But isn't it exactly what Oracle offers? For the money, of course. Right. What distinguishes Amazon's offering is that it has that kind of backing at zero cost. With Oracle, you can have zero cost, or “production-ready” backing, but not both together.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Well, we want that for free, of course.
  - tyingq 8y ago
    Or for less than $25 per core, per month. Or clarity on what to do for a 1 VCPU license (1/2 a core). Or how to pay for licenses on ephemeral elastic servers.
- Arnt 8y ago
  Oracle's offering involves paying Oracle money and getting regular phone calls from the Oracle sales department, which I have heard described in colourful ways.
  - arethuza 8y ago
    Oracle has/had "value based pricing" for larger contracts The discussion goes something like this: Customer: "How much does this cost?" Oracle sales: "How much money do you have?" Now this isn't quite as bad as it sounds (charge based on the value that the new system will bring) but the conversation was definitely a bit uncomfortable..... Oracle was not selected as the vendor. Edit: SAP weren't selected either for different reasons: SAP: "You are a manufacturing company and will use SAP like this" Customer: "We see why you might think that but we don't manufacture things" SAP: "You are a manufacturing company and will use SAP like this" Customer: Next... Obviously, there was more to both conversations - but these are reasonable summaries based upon my dubious memories.
    - richardwhiuk 8y ago
      That's how B2B sales work - the salesman works on how much the customer is willing to pay, then discounts the product down to the point the customer will pay, and the checks that isn't below cost of goods.
fulafel 8y ago
So same as rhel openjdk (https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013 https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013) ?
- yrro 8y ago
  > Are the binary plugs that Oracle did not release the source supported? Are the articles that Red Had publishes ever proof read?
  - setquk 8y ago
    > Red Had :)
    - yrro 8y ago
      I think there's a law about this happening...

addisonj 8y ago

See this link for context: https://jaxenter.com/end-life-comes-early-jdk-8-140824.html https://jaxenter.com/end-life-comes-early-jdk-8-140824.html Tl;Dr: with Oracle changing the release versioning of Java, LTS releases are now essentially a paid product. If you run a large business with a lot of Java that is now a significant new burden to deal with.

gojomo 8y ago
And also perhaps a rising desire at Amazon to take Oracle down a few notches, as also seen in the recent “uh huh, keep talking Larry” announcements? EG: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/12/stay_classy_jassy_gets_sassy_with_larry/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/12/stay_classy_jassy_g...
- Yeroc 8y ago
  And perhaps also a desire to maintain parity with Azure since they announced Java LTS support via Azul for their customers a couple months ago (https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/blog/microsoft-and-azul-systems-bring-free-java-lts-support-to-azure/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/blog/microsoft-and-azul-sy...).

kgoutham93 8y ago

I don't qualify to answer this... But most enterprises want someone to hold accountable in case of any catastrophic failures.

DannyB2 8y ago
Holding Accountable means those PHBs should buy a commercially supported Open JDK. Just as you can buy commercially supported Linux even though Linux is open source. Production Ready is a different thing than commercially supported. Linux is "production ready" even if you get a distribution which is not commercially supported with a contract and agreements on fixing it at 3 AM when it blows up.
- kgoutham93 8y ago
  Agree, according to Oracle's new release cadence every major version is "production ready", just that every sixth release is considered for LTS.

cntlzw 8y ago

OpenJDK 9 and OpenJDK 10 missed several root certificates in its truststore.

cakeface 8y ago
Yes! It took me a while to track this down. They weren't really even included until OpenJDK 10. 11 is better but still missing some certificates.

pron 8y ago

OpenJDK is the most "official" Java out there. Oracle develops OpenJDK, and as of JDK 11 all previously commercial features of Oracle JDK have been contributed to OpenJDK, so that now Oracle JDK and OpenJDK are essentially identical[1] [1]: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/oracle-jdk-releases-for-java-11-and-later https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/oracle-jdk-rele...