4 ms·

What is the intelligent police work that you think should be done instead of compelling unlocking?

tristor 8y ago
The same police work that they would have done before the existence of smart phones. As an observer it seems to me as if law enforcement agencies are lazy and believe that investigation of crimes should be simplified by ubiquitous use of technology rather than frustrated. But technology is a tool which serves its master, and as long as users remain the master of their technology it will serve their interested and frustrate other actors. Police investigations don't need to rely on access to this technology and can be pursued through the same methods they have been for centuries.
- JoeSmithson 8y ago
  You're avoiding the point - a smartphone is a place where evidence can now exist where it couldn't before. Suppose a child discloses to a teacher that their father raped them and filmed it on his iPhone, specifically what actions would you take as a detective tasked with that case?
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    Get a warrant and set up surveillance. As soon as the surveillance captures the iPhone password, seize it.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    Firstly you would do the same thing you would do in the overwhelming number of cases in which they tell their teacher their father raped them and didn't film it on their iphone. In most instances the perpetrator wont have obligingly kept evidence for you. This is something like the scenario in which we defend torture by positing a ticking time bomb scenario. Sure we want to break the terrorists fingers and lock away the pedophile until he brings forth evidence of his evil deeds but that doesn't make it it a good model to arrange our life and laws on. Logically you would secure the child so he couldn't come to harm. Interview him, interview the perp, other family members, other adults who interacted with the child say at school. Have a therapist/psychologist analyze the child's behavior. If you believe you need access to the phone/computer you could seize it while its unlocked, attack their phone, attack their home computer and use it to attack their phone, plant a bug/physically surveil them. In cases where it was vital cops seem to have been able to do this so far. They just wish they could do it more easily.
- CompanionCuuube 8y ago
  This logic can also be applied to restricting police from searching motor vehicles, since they could just do the same police work that they would have done in the centuries before the existence of personal motor vehicles.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    The argument isn't that you can't search phones/computers its that they are not a special case. The accused does not lose existing rights because it would be convenient for law enforcement. The issue would not come up with a car because the door could merely be jimmied.
    - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
      > The issue would not come up with a car because the door could merely be jimmied. This isn't a counterargument for why phones/computers should be considered a special case exempt from a search warrant. The inability for the door to be jimmied doesn't make the car deserving of a special exemption.

The same police work that they would have done before the existence of smart phones. As an observer it seems to me as if law enforcement agencies are lazy and believe that investigation of crimes should be simplified by ubiquitous use of technology rather than frustrated. But technology is a tool which serves its master, and as long as users remain the master of their technology it will serve their interested and frustrate other actors. Police investigations don't need to rely on access to this technology and can be pursued through the same methods they have been for centuries.

JoeSmithson 8y ago
You're avoiding the point - a smartphone is a place where evidence can now exist where it couldn't before. Suppose a child discloses to a teacher that their father raped them and filmed it on his iPhone, specifically what actions would you take as a detective tasked with that case?
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  Get a warrant and set up surveillance. As soon as the surveillance captures the iPhone password, seize it.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  Firstly you would do the same thing you would do in the overwhelming number of cases in which they tell their teacher their father raped them and didn't film it on their iphone. In most instances the perpetrator wont have obligingly kept evidence for you. This is something like the scenario in which we defend torture by positing a ticking time bomb scenario. Sure we want to break the terrorists fingers and lock away the pedophile until he brings forth evidence of his evil deeds but that doesn't make it it a good model to arrange our life and laws on. Logically you would secure the child so he couldn't come to harm. Interview him, interview the perp, other family members, other adults who interacted with the child say at school. Have a therapist/psychologist analyze the child's behavior. If you believe you need access to the phone/computer you could seize it while its unlocked, attack their phone, attack their home computer and use it to attack their phone, plant a bug/physically surveil them. In cases where it was vital cops seem to have been able to do this so far. They just wish they could do it more easily.
CompanionCuuube 8y ago
This logic can also be applied to restricting police from searching motor vehicles, since they could just do the same police work that they would have done in the centuries before the existence of personal motor vehicles.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  The argument isn't that you can't search phones/computers its that they are not a special case. The accused does not lose existing rights because it would be convenient for law enforcement. The issue would not come up with a car because the door could merely be jimmied.
  - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
    > The issue would not come up with a car because the door could merely be jimmied. This isn't a counterargument for why phones/computers should be considered a special case exempt from a search warrant. The inability for the door to be jimmied doesn't make the car deserving of a special exemption.